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Post by intoanewlife on Jul 23, 2023 18:39:06 GMT
I was probably a bit unfair re the last 2 songs...I have only seen it once and have not listened to it since I saw it so I don't know them that well. The show just felt over for me once the main source of his problems was revealed (in another 2 songs that could've been cut shorter already) and I didn't need those 2 songs to tell me what was coming once he had made that realisation. I literally sat there thinking, ok how long are they going to drag this out telling us what we already know is coming. Sure it gives the audience the happy ending they crave and a sense that everything is going to be ok, but it is going to take him a long time to get there and I think that leg of his journey was best left privately to him and to our imaginations. I actually have this problem with a lot of musicals, especially those that stick to fairly traditional musical theatre troupes. Not EVERYTHING has to be 2 and a half / 3 hours long or over explained or dragged out to an ending we can see coming an hour earlier, some things can be left to the imagination. Tammy Faye suffered from it pretty badly in Act 2 and Hamilton does it towards the end as well. It's all exciting and new up until the last 30 minutes, when it then waffles on endlessly before ending with some dribble about his legacy. Mean Girls is probably the worst offender, where all the main 'punchlines' in the movie all have a 3 minute song in the musical version. One, we lose the joke as it has now become a song and two, now it takes 2 and half hours to tell the same story the movie told us in 90 minutes, only it's not half as good. Maybe it's because I'm an editor and spend my entire working life cutting things out of stuff lol I found the 'clapping' very much like the 'come on stage' ending of FairPlay and Six after Howard's song. I think people just don't know how to handle the discomfort of what they're watching and the people clapping just didn't get the show or what was going on in the scene and were just mindlessly doing what the performers were telling them too. It's kinda cruel really, but also rather funny lol Ah now you see my take on the end of the show was that it was neither a happy or sad ending. To me it was an open ending which I really liked. I guess if you look at it in a very ‘Meta’ (sorry, I dislike that word but can’t think of another right now), we know it is a happy ending because we’ve just watched Usher’s show being staged. This felt a bit more plausible on Broadway due to the lyrics in the opening song. You could also look at it as being a case of nothing actually having changed in Usher’s life except for him exploring his thoughts in detail. I guess the only person who could confirm or deny this would be Michael R Jackson. I totally agree with you about Hamilton which was game over for me by the end of Act 1. I thought Eliza’s last speech, the song and the reaching out to the audience was toe curling. I liked Tammy Faye in principle (I even named my new kitten after her) but I thought Act 2 seemed like it needed a lot more work before it was ready to be on stage and the shambolic bows didn’t help. I think you’re right about the jaunty clapping in ASL. The way it petered out when some people realised what they were clapping along to did make me laugh too (cruel, but fair). I wonder if the clapping came as a surprise to the cast the first time it happened? I think once he had finally discovered/acknowledged what his main problem actually was, his road to recovery was on the way. Sometimes the mere discovery is enough and yes the fact we are watching his musical in the end tells us 'he made it'. I do wonder, considering the style of the rest of the show, if indeed the unpleasant 'Daddy' moment had actually occurred or if it was just a manifestation of the fears he had about using sex apps. It was obvious that he wasn't too keen on using them in the first place and he seems very much asexual. Then when he supposedly buckles, pretty much the worst thing that could ever happen to someone happens to him. I took it as more of a warning to people who use them, that actually despite what someone tells you they may not actually be who they are saying they are and rocking up to a complete strangers front door (or even worse, allowing them in your home) and giving them free reign over your body and safety, is probably not an ideal situation to put yourself in. I think the clapping is intentional as the performers are encouraging it. I doubt anyone would do it without the encouragement...or at least I hope not. |
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Post by intoanewlife on Jul 23, 2023 18:39:30 GMT
What are they clapping along with? Could someone enlighten me please? It's better to experience it for yourself lol |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 23, 2023 18:53:20 GMT
What are they clapping along with? Could someone enlighten me please? It's better to experience it for yourself lol Many people won’t experience it for themselves but would like to know, so if it’s a spoiler maybe someone who knows how to use spoiler tags could enlighten us? That would be appreciated. How to use spoiler tags |
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Post by intoanewlife on Jul 23, 2023 19:24:33 GMT
It's better to experience it for yourself lol Many people won’t experience it for themselves but would like to know, so if it’s a spoiler maybe someone who knows how to use spoiler tags could enlighten us? That would be appreciated. How to use spoiler tags {Spoiler - click to view}
There is a kind of 'parody' fantasy scene where he writes a big gospel number at his homophobic parents request. The song he writes is based around words they've said to him. The choir are singing AIDS is Gods Punishment repeatedly, while a preacher is saying a similar type of sermon. The choir are encouraging the audience to clap along while they're chanting Aids is Gods Punishment and a few suckers do so. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 23, 2023 20:01:15 GMT
Got it. Thanks.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 23, 2023 20:04:15 GMT
Before that bit of info I was arriving at the conclusion that in order to like it, you had to ‘get it’. But that seems to indicate that some people who like it, don’t actually ‘get it’?
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Post by intoanewlife on Jul 23, 2023 20:09:59 GMT
Before that bit of info I was arriving at the conclusion that in order to like it, you had to ‘get it’. But that seems to indicate that some people who like it, don’t actually ‘get it’? I doubt anyone who liked it clapped along... I don't think it matters if you didn't pick up every little nuance to enjoy it. I really liked Company, but I have absolutely no idea WTH it was about. |
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Post by ladidah on Jul 24, 2023 8:53:30 GMT
I said the same thing when I saw the show, the clapping made me feel uncomfortable because they had clearly missed the point of it.
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Post by jarnew on Jul 24, 2023 10:59:44 GMT
I said the same thing when I saw the show, the clapping made me feel uncomfortable because they had clearly missed the point of it. My god, so it wasnt just at my show this happened lol . It honestly added to the insanity of the whole scene for me though, having some old people in the audience here and there clapping along with THAT |
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Post by Matt on Jul 24, 2023 14:00:15 GMT
I feel like clapping along or not isn’t down to your understanding and belief in that specific content, I think it’s a lot down to social compliance. If someone is saying clap along then your instinctive reaction is to do so, and if other people in the audience do it then you feel more encouragement/pressure to.
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Post by ladidah on Jul 24, 2023 14:40:39 GMT
I think the way the song built up, it was like a dawning horror - so to clap regardless of if anyone else did - meant it all went over your head.
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Post by shownut on Jul 24, 2023 15:15:00 GMT
I said the same thing when I saw the show, the clapping made me feel uncomfortable because they had clearly missed the point of it. My god, so it wasnt just at my show this happened lol . It honestly added to the insanity of the whole scene for me though, having some old people in the audience here and there clapping along with THAT You target those clapping as 'old people'....could we be bit more mindful of targeting audience members based on a demographic? A lot of 'old people' go to the theatre en masse and not all of them are ignorant. Thanks. |
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Post by intoanewlife on Jul 24, 2023 15:57:26 GMT
My god, so it wasnt just at my show this happened lol . It honestly added to the insanity of the whole scene for me though, having some old people in the audience here and there clapping along with THAT You target those clapping as 'old people'....could we be bit more mindful of targeting audience members based on a demographic? A lot of 'old people' go to the theatre en masse and not all of them are ignorant. Thanks. Yeah a youngish guy in front of me starting clapping. I was even more mortified when later during the final bows that one of the 'thoughts' waved at him, so he obviously had a comped seat. |
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Post by properjob on Jul 24, 2023 18:46:50 GMT
I'm glad I've seen it to satisfy my curiosity but it really, really wasn't for me. I think it was just to many steps from my lived experience for me. Also it felt like it could have got going quicker.
I was at the mid week matinee and was moved down to the stalls as my level was closed. I can see why it has been brought over by a subsidised venue rather than a commercial producer but then bringing over award winning shows that are perhaps too niche to be commercial is what the subsidised sector should be doing.
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Post by properjob on Jul 24, 2023 18:50:41 GMT
I feel like clapping along or not isn’t down to your understanding and belief in that specific content, I think it’s a lot down to social compliance. If someone is saying clap along then your instinctive reaction is to do so, and if other people in the audience do it then you feel more encouragement/pressure to. Operation Mincemeat features the Nazi's and there is a bit where it gets to the end of a big number featuring them and has a big finish so everyone claps. This then let's the cast break the 4th wall to say to the audience "really? You're clapping that?" When they have structured the show so you will. |
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Post by toomasj on Jul 24, 2023 19:27:36 GMT
I feel like clapping along or not isn’t down to your understanding and belief in that specific content, I think it’s a lot down to social compliance. If someone is saying clap along then your instinctive reaction is to do so, and if other people in the audience do it then you feel more encouragement/pressure to. It sounds like it’s this, a mini Milford experiment or Pavlovian may be closer. If you have people singing an upbeat song, smiling and clapping out towards the audience they will naturally respond with clapping because they are conditioned to do so from musical theatre shows, concerts and pantomime. Additionally, people often have very odd reactions to theatre shows which can vary performance to performance. Laughter is very common at Blood Brothers in the final scene before “Tell Me It’s Not True”. At “Oleanna” I’ve witnessed audience reactions varying from a woman(!) loudly saying “GOOD!” in the dramatic final moments, through to gasps of shock and anger, through to laughter. A combination of factors can be at play, but audiences can be manipulated and are willing to be, it’s all part of the theatre experience. |
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Post by jarnew on Jul 25, 2023 2:12:47 GMT
My god, so it wasnt just at my show this happened lol . It honestly added to the insanity of the whole scene for me though, having some old people in the audience here and there clapping along with THAT You target those clapping as 'old people'....could we be bit more mindful of targeting audience members based on a demographic? A lot of 'old people' go to the theatre en masse and not all of them are ignorant. Thanks. Sorry for being so inconsiderate! Most of the audience at my show were on the older side to begin with, so naturally the 5 percent of them that clapped along also were. This was very specific to my performance, im very much aware that this is a small minority. My bad. |
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Post by midge on Jul 31, 2023 15:53:44 GMT
Great, have fun! But you couldn't pay me to sit through this whining pity party again. As a gay man I'd rather spend the evening with the "predictable" straights, sorry! 🤣 Well, since the conversation has gone in this direction... As a gay man who grew up in the American Bible Belt in a very religious community, and one who struggled with his sense of self, body image and acceptance of his own sexuality, this show spoke to me a LOT. I envy any gay person who can watch this show and not feel impacted by many facets of the story. If you are an adult member of the LGBTQ+ community who has NOT dealt/struggled with homophobia, a negative self/body image, or a community that, at large, only takes an interest in you if you are what passes for "hot", then bully for you. I hope you know how lucky you truly are and yes, if that is the case, you will probably not connect with this show. But I do find it sad that you consider the subject matter of this show to be a 'whining pity party' when it covers some bold ground for a musical and dares to navigate the form in a new, frank and inventive way. You clearly missed a lot here. I find it very peculiar that people find this to be anything other than a self-indulgent, narcissistic piece. The themes are, for sure, relatable, but the execution is so wrapped up in one person's head we have no sense of who he is to the outside world. He doesn't interact with anyone other than in those pseudo-interactions where his mom is almost some grim caricature. Just because a play says the f and n word a lot doesn't make it frank. I think in this it's quite crass. That final-act set scene was so grim, you could almost see the smug faces of the creative team thinking it was genius. Still, I was happy to look at something other than those doorways. |
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Post by intoanewlife on Jul 31, 2023 17:26:34 GMT
Well, since the conversation has gone in this direction... As a gay man who grew up in the American Bible Belt in a very religious community, and one who struggled with his sense of self, body image and acceptance of his own sexuality, this show spoke to me a LOT. I envy any gay person who can watch this show and not feel impacted by many facets of the story. If you are an adult member of the LGBTQ+ community who has NOT dealt/struggled with homophobia, a negative self/body image, or a community that, at large, only takes an interest in you if you are what passes for "hot", then bully for you. I hope you know how lucky you truly are and yes, if that is the case, you will probably not connect with this show. But I do find it sad that you consider the subject matter of this show to be a 'whining pity party' when it covers some bold ground for a musical and dares to navigate the form in a new, frank and inventive way. You clearly missed a lot here. I find it very peculiar that people find this to be anything other than a self-indulgent, narcissistic piece. The themes are, for sure, relatable, but the execution is so wrapped up in one person's head we have no sense of who he is to the outside world. This is whole point of the show. |
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Post by midge on Jul 31, 2023 17:37:42 GMT
I find it very peculiar that people find this to be anything other than a self-indulgent, narcissistic piece. The themes are, for sure, relatable, but the execution is so wrapped up in one person's head we have no sense of who he is to the outside world. This is whole point of the show. Sorry, what is? An ego piece? It's exhausting. Why do we want to spend 90 minutes with him? |
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Post by matildaswinton on Jul 31, 2023 17:53:12 GMT
This is whole point of the show. Sorry, what is? An ego piece? It's exhausting. Why do we want to spend 90 minutes with him? Okay go back to see Newsies again. Why you gotta hate so loud? |
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Post by midge on Jul 31, 2023 18:16:06 GMT
Sorry, what is? An ego piece? It's exhausting. Why do we want to spend 90 minutes with him? Okay go back to see Newsies again. Why you gotta hate so loud? Ah, great discussion had by all! |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 31, 2023 18:33:49 GMT
Sorry, what is? An ego piece? It's exhausting. Why do we want to spend 90 minutes with him? Okay go back to see Newsies again. Why you gotta hate so loud? Seriously? Please don’t do this. Disliking a piece and saying why, and then being diminished for it by another member is the absolute antithesis of what this forum is about. If people don’t want to hear opinions that might differ from their own they are in the wrong place. |
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Post by intoanewlife on Jul 31, 2023 18:38:12 GMT
This is whole point of the show. Sorry, what is? An ego piece? It's exhausting. Why do we want to spend 90 minutes with him? I enjoyed every second I spent with him. The whole point of the show is that this person lives in his head because he has not ever dealt with the huge amount of trauma he has been through in his life. His brain is literally stuck in a loop, he has no life outside of his head. There is nothing narcissistic about someone going through a mental health crisis. It's meant to be exhausting, imagine living that way. |
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Post by intoanewlife on Jul 31, 2023 18:40:44 GMT
Okay go back to see Newsies again. Why you gotta hate so loud? Seriously? Please don’t do this. Disliking a piece and saying why, and then being diminished for it by another member is the absolute antithesis of what this forum is about. If people don’t want to hear opinions that might differ from their own they are in the wrong place. He literally quoted someone else's opinion and had a go at them about it. His entire post was attacking other people's opinions of the show. |
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