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Post by Someone in a tree on Nov 9, 2022 7:14:24 GMT
2 weeks in 1 u-turn and 1 resignation. Not the start he was hoping for.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Nov 9, 2022 9:06:25 GMT
Still makes me laugh Williamsons interview with Richard Madeley.
Turned an Alan Partridge into a Brian Waldren
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Post by Jan on Nov 9, 2022 9:26:53 GMT
2 weeks in 1 u-turn and 1 resignation. Not the start he was hoping for. Not really a resignation was it, he had to fire him. The fact he appointed a serial incompetent like Williamson who had been fired from government twice before for being useless reflects very badly on Sunak indeed. Williamson will now duly work against him from the back benches just as he worked against May, Johnson and Truss. Having seen him in action at COP27 one commentator referred to Sunak as potentially being "a rat pack politician" (invoking the Sinatra/Dean Martin crowd) - another member of the group like Macron or Trudeau who prefer to meet each other for photo ops at high-profile international gatherings and act like old friends rather than dealing with unglamorous domestic issues.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Nov 9, 2022 10:21:59 GMT
2 weeks in 1 u-turn and 1 resignation. Not the start he was hoping for. Not really a resignation was it, he had to fire him. The fact he appointed a serial incompetent like Williamson who had been fired from government twice before for being useless reflects very badly on Sunak indeed. Williamson will now duly work against him from the back benches just as he worked against May, Johnson and Truss. Having seen him in action at COP27 one commentator referred to Sunak as potentially being "a rat pack politician" (invoking the Sinatra/Dean Martin crowd) - another member of the group like Macron or Trudeau who prefer to meet each other for photo ops at high-profile international gatherings and act like old friends rather than dealing with unglamorous domestic issues. I think Someone in a tree was being kind when he used the word 'resignation'. Just can't shake off the nasty party tag. Do you think Macron and Trudeau will welcome Sunak into the centrists club whilst he still has Braverman in the cabinet? I think they may wait and see if Sunak cuts the ties with the ERG'ers firstly. Starmer welcomed with open arms, Sunak just a little to do before admittance just yet.
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Post by karloscar on Nov 9, 2022 10:47:06 GMT
I guess Macron likes Sunak simply for the fact that he makes him look tall!
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Nov 9, 2022 10:49:08 GMT
I guess Macron likes Sunak simply for the fact that he makes him look tall! He he Needs repeating so I did it
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Post by Jan on Nov 9, 2022 13:15:23 GMT
Not really a resignation was it, he had to fire him. The fact he appointed a serial incompetent like Williamson who had been fired from government twice before for being useless reflects very badly on Sunak indeed. Williamson will now duly work against him from the back benches just as he worked against May, Johnson and Truss. Having seen him in action at COP27 one commentator referred to Sunak as potentially being "a rat pack politician" (invoking the Sinatra/Dean Martin crowd) - another member of the group like Macron or Trudeau who prefer to meet each other for photo ops at high-profile international gatherings and act like old friends rather than dealing with unglamorous domestic issues. I think Someone in a tree was being kind when he used the word 'resignation'. Just can't shake off the nasty party tag. Do you think Macron and Trudeau will welcome Sunak into the centrists club whilst he still has Braverman in the cabinet? I think they may wait and see if Sunak cuts the ties with the ERG'ers firstly. Starmer welcomed with open arms, Sunak just a little to do before admittance just yet. Other world keaders couldn’t care less about Braverman and domestic UK politics - Sunak discussed a deal on the channel crossers with Macron direct at COO27 over Braverman’s head. They would also welcome Starmer as you say even with his remaining ties to Corbynite extremists in senior positions - it’s all about a presidential approach based on personal contacts.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Nov 9, 2022 13:26:14 GMT
I think Someone in a tree was being kind when he used the word 'resignation'. Just can't shake off the nasty party tag. Do you think Macron and Trudeau will welcome Sunak into the centrists club whilst he still has Braverman in the cabinet? I think they may wait and see if Sunak cuts the ties with the ERG'ers firstly. Starmer welcomed with open arms, Sunak just a little to do before admittance just yet. Other world keaders couldn’t care less about Braverman and domestic UK politics - Sunak discussed a deal on the channel crossers with Macron direct at COO27 over Braverman’s head. They would also welcome Starmer as you say even with his remaining ties to Corbynite extremists in senior positions - it’s all about a presidential approach based on personal contacts. Corbynite extremists?
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Post by karloscar on Nov 9, 2022 17:03:40 GMT
Corbynite extremists?? The neo-fascists inhabiting the right wing Tory party are actually in power and are the real threat to this country. Nobody in the left of Labour party has that much influence.
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4,993 posts
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Post by Someone in a tree on Feb 28, 2023 17:09:31 GMT
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Feb 28, 2023 17:23:02 GMT
He he Contradictory the picture. Has Rishi 'won' the speedboat or is Rishi presenting to Boris as 'here's what you could of won?'. Probably a bit of both
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Post by eulenspiegel on Mar 4, 2023 15:22:48 GMT
This article got quoted toda in Germany - in def Spiegel If this is true…is is really ridiculous… www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/04/food-tsar-blames-shortages-on-uks-weird-supermarket-culture„ Dimbleby disagreed with the environment secretary, Thérèse Coffey, who denied that the recent shortages of eggs and vegetables was a “market failure”. He said: “This is a problem of market failure in the specifically British food system. It’s going to get worse. The UK food system is, I think, unique – I don’t know another system where the supermarkets have these fixed-price contracts with suppliers. So, basically, you have no effective market. It’s a very difficult one for the government to solve, but it does need to be resolved.” Dimbleby said that in the UK lettuce prices in supermarkets were kept stable, whether there was a shortage or a glut, meaning farmers could not sell all their crop when they had too much, or get incentives to produce more during a shortage. He added: “If there’s bad weather across Europe, because there’s a scarcity supermarkets put their prices up – but not in the UK. And therefore at the margin, the suppliers will supply to France, Germany, Ukraine.” This week, the farming minister, Mark Spencer, held a summit with large food chains but did not invite farming groups. (…) He said: “In 2004 there was a particularly bad frost and we had the same issue then. And it will continue to get worse due to climate change. These periods of freak events that used to be not very often, because of climate change are going to happen more and more often. These problems won’t be resolved until we look at what I outlined in my food strategy – we need to fix the problems of climate change, and health, and the way the food markets in the UK are structured leave us vulnerable to this, so we’d better sort it out.”
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2023 5:39:11 GMT
Every poll ever taken by a major polling organisation has put 'in favour of the Monarchy' far above the Republicans. The nadir of polling for the former was 55%, the zenith of the latter, 33%. The latest poll is: Keep the Monarchy - 62% Abolish - 25% Don't know - 12% I think it is easy to get wrapped up in echo chambers and think the pervading view within those groups is how the country thinks - 2016 and 2019 was definitely an eye opener for many - but that's why it's important, in my opinion, to broaden our social circles to include those with contrasting views and not to only follow people we agree with on Twitter and other social media.
As far as I'm concerned these surveys are meaningless. They just reflect how utterly manipulated most of the public are by the mainstream media.
It is well known the media and the British Royal Family are in this ghastly co-dependant, parasitical relationship. There is barely a mainstream news outlet taking a Republican stance. Barely even a critical one.
Again, this sounds too similar to Momentum's 'we need to replace the electorate' post 2019 General Election but with the extra caveat that those who don't think exactly the same as me are thick. When will people like you actually take the time to speak to people and ask them why they think as they do rather than assume you have a door into their minds? There is also plenty of variation in discussion and debate in the mainstream outlets on a variety of subjects and matters so people have choice. The fact that the right wing ones are more popular is that they tend to represent what the majority of the population think whether you, I or any else agrees with that or not. There's a reason why Labour only wins elections by moving to the right...
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2023 5:42:25 GMT
This. Do you really want a President Farage or some other neo-Trumpist? Of course not, but if you're using a proportional voting system, and Farage has >50% of the votes of your compatriots in the final round, who are you or I to over-rule the majority? Democracy means accepting when you lose. It also doesn't preclude you from using democratic means to overturn the result at the next election. There will never be PR in the UK as any party in Government will never want to dilute their power. In 2015/2016 a presidential election in Britain would likely have been won by Nigel Farrage.
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Post by mkb on May 9, 2023 8:12:58 GMT
Of course not, but if you're using a proportional voting system, and Farage has >50% of the votes of your compatriots in the final round, who are you or I to over-rule the majority? Democracy means accepting when you lose. It also doesn't preclude you from using democratic means to overturn the result at the next election. There will never be PR in the UK as any party in Government will never want to dilute their power. In 2015/2016 a presidential election in Britain would likely have been won by Nigel Farrage. We already use PR in elections in part of the UK. Like the monarchy, the first-past-the-post system is ultimately doomed.
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Post by eulenspiegel on May 9, 2023 9:56:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2023 10:43:32 GMT
There will never be PR in the UK as any party in Government will never want to dilute their power. In 2015/2016 a presidential election in Britain would likely have been won by Nigel Farrage. We already use PR in elections in part of the UK. Like the monarchy, the first-past-the-post is ultimately doomed. OK then, which party will win a General Election and introduce PR? Also, with approval rates always above the mid 50s and often stretching into high 60s, which party will win a General Election and have a manifesto promise to abolish the Monarchy? I fully understand why so many people feel that their vote doesn't really count but there's not a party capable of winning a General Election who will ever change the FPTP system, not a single one. Lib Dems and Greens will never win power so in what circumstances do you see Labour or Conservatives introducing it? Owen Jones said last week that he'll be alive when the Monarchy is abolished. You, him and anyone else who thinks that is living in a fantasy World which the echo rooms you inhabit have allowed you to think it is possible. No more, no less. Whether you like it or not, Britain is Conservative with a small c and patriotism around the Royal Family is deep rooted. The regular polls also show that, as widely acknowledged, once young fervent, anti-monarchist mostly become older (not may disagree with 'wiser') supporters of the concept of Monarchy. I know Jones, and his ilk, claim that this younger generation is different but if so, why are Labour still forced to move to the right to win the election next year? It's one thing to be against the notion of Monarchy - something I may or may not agree with - it's a completely different thing to suggest it's going anywhere in stark contract to all evidence when ALL views are taken into account.
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Post by max on May 9, 2023 12:49:13 GMT
We already use PR in elections in part of the UK. Like the monarchy, the first-past-the-post is ultimately doomed. OK then, which party will win a General Election and introduce PR? Also, with approval rates always above the mid 50s and often stretching into high 60s, which party will win a General Election and have a manifesto promise to abolish the Monarchy? I fully understand why so many people feel that their vote doesn't really count but there's not a party capable of winning a General Election who will ever change the FPTP system, not a single one. Lib Dems and Greens will never win power so in what circumstances do you see Labour or Conservatives introducing it? Owen Jones said last week that he'll be alive when the Monarchy is abolished. You, him and anyone else who thinks that is living in a fantasy World which the echo rooms you inhabit have allowed you to think it is possible. No more, no less. Whether you like it or not, Britain is Conservative with a small c and patriotism around the Royal Family is deep rooted. The regular polls also show that, as widely acknowledged, once young fervent, anti-monarchist mostly become older (not may disagree with 'wiser') supporters of the concept of Monarchy. I know Jones, and his ilk, claim that this younger generation is different but if so, why are Labour still forced to move to the right to win the election next year? It's one thing to be against the notion of Monarchy - something I may or may not agree with - it's a completely different thing to suggest it's going anywhere in stark contract to all evidence when ALL views are taken into account. It's not so fanciful that there would be a vote on PR. The Lib Dems were able to force one due to the hung parliament and them being in coalition in 2011. It was the 'alternative vote' system that went to a referendum. AV was rejected by 67.9% of voters on a national turnout of 42%. I believe in PR but voted against, as AV can result in the candidate 'most people don't mind'. The only true PR is one where if you get 30 percent of the votes you get 30% of the seats. On reflection I should have voted 'Yes' to some form of fair(er) votes, and then hope to get a better one later. However, if Labour were the largest party in a hung parliament at the next election they may have a stronger hand to play - telling the Lib Dems that their alternative to a Lab/Lib coalition is to put the Tories back in. Or Labour go ahead as a minority government for as long as they can (giving no legislative deal to the Lib Dems) and then another General Election.
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Post by londonpostie on May 9, 2023 13:09:21 GMT
I quite like the notion B. Johnson and N. Sturgeon have effectively worked together to get Labour close to power. They'll be pleased about that, a fine legacy for an endearing pair ..
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 9, 2023 15:11:15 GMT
I never understand the idea that putting the power in the hands of political parties rather than the voters is a better solution that representative democracy.
I believe very strongly in voting for candidates rather than parties. I believe having locally elected MPs is far preferable to voting for a party and having no say as to who gets to represent my area in parliament.
Party lists put the power right by the hands of party officials and moves it away from voters.
You don't have by-elections. The next person on the party list just takes the vacant seat and so it goes.
As a voter, I like the opportunity to vote for a candidate who best represents my views or to vote for the candidate best placed to remove a poorly performing MP from office.
Under PR, that is a choice no voter could make. A party official would decide who represents an area not the voters.
I appreciate that I am not a typical voter. But I do value representative democracy very highly. FPTP isn't perfect but no voting system is. It is the system that delivers what I look for in a democratic system.
It has to work alongside constituency sizes that are equally sized in terms of voter number as far as possible. +/- 10% feels appropriate. I would also trim the number of MPs down to 500 and make recall elections easier to call.
But I have looked at the alternatives and none of them offer a package that leads to local representation and retains the power of the voter.
I know there are hybrid systems such as for the Scottish Parliament. But that was a system designed by the then government to prevent a single party state. Well that failed fairly spectacularly to deliver what was intended.
FPTP isn't perfect. But it is less imperfect than any of the alternatives yet proposed.
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Post by max on May 10, 2023 19:55:04 GMT
I never understand the idea that putting the power in the hands of political parties rather than the voters is a better solution that representative democracy. I believe very strongly in voting for candidates rather than parties. I believe having locally elected MPs is far preferable to voting for a party and having no say as to who gets to represent my area in parliament. Party lists put the power right by the hands of party officials and moves it away from voters. You don't have by-elections. The next person on the party list just takes the vacant seat and so it goes. As a voter, I like the opportunity to vote for a candidate who best represents my views or to vote for the candidate best placed to remove a poorly performing MP from office. Under PR, that is a choice no voter could make. A party official would decide who represents an area not the voters. I appreciate that I am not a typical voter. But I do value representative democracy very highly. FPTP isn't perfect but no voting system is. It is the system that delivers what I look for in a democratic system. It has to work alongside constituency sizes that are equally sized in terms of voter number as far as possible. +/- 10% feels appropriate. I would also trim the number of MPs down to 500 and make recall elections easier to call. But I have looked at the alternatives and none of them offer a package that leads to local representation and retains the power of the voter. I know there are hybrid systems such as for the Scottish Parliament. But that was a system designed by the then government to prevent a single party state. Well that failed fairly spectacularly to deliver what was intended. FPTP isn't perfect. But it is less imperfect than any of the alternatives yet proposed. There's a version of PR that would elect local-specific MPs to represent constituencies; then, to get a party up to the exact % of representation they won, further MPs would be added from a top-up list. True these would not be so constituency linked, but could be regional, and/or represent sport, arts, children, science etc. It would give the electorate a second port of call on particular issues. This doesn't expand the overall number of MPs as the local-specific MPs would be a reduced number, meaning they'd cover a larger constituency.
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Post by vdcni on May 11, 2023 19:06:46 GMT
And how many people actually vote for candidates over parties anyway. I would suggest very very few and only very occasionally does an MPs reputation sink so low that they get removed from office outside the normal swing of voting. You may think your local MP is particularly poor as a constituency MP but if you live in a safe seat it is very unlikely to make the slightest difference if you choose to vote against him as a result.
Given that candidates are chosen by the parties right now I don't see the difference.
And the advantage is the average individuals vote counts a lot more than now when a relatively small number of swing seats are all that matters.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on May 12, 2023 6:07:41 GMT
After this nasty Tory government I am sure we are all in agreement anything that means we will never have another Tory administration is a good thing. I’m on the PR bus
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 16, 2023 7:22:33 GMT
Politics is cyclical. Parties rise and parties fall and often rise again.
Trying to rig the system to prevent any one party from gaining power on the future is not democratic and should be resisted whoever is trying it.
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 16, 2023 8:11:39 GMT
And how many people actually vote for candidates over parties anyway. I would suggest very very few and only very occasionally does an MPs reputation sink so low that they get removed from office outside the normal swing of voting. You may think your local MP is particularly poor as a constituency MP but if you live in a safe seat it is very unlikely to make the slightest difference if you choose to vote against him as a result. Given that candidates are chosen by the parties right now I don't see the difference. And the advantage is the average individuals vote counts a lot more than now when a relatively small number of swing seats are all that matters. I find it wrong when PR systems are set up with party lists so that instead of by elections, the MP who has resigned or died is just replaced by the next available person on a party list. A person that no one ever had a chance to consider, vet, let alone vote for. We have had governments rightly fall because of a series of by election losses. Anything that reduces the ability of the electorate to kick the government in the ballot box in between general elections doesn't work for me. It is also why I want to make it easier for constituents to demand recall elections. It is true that parties select candidates for election but in many, many cases that is done on the basis of internal democratic systems where you, if you so choose, could get involved by joining a party and being part of the process With the list system, local parties lose that influence and central offices get far more control. No system is perfect. But I will resist any changes that damage the connection between candidates and the voters. Parties don't own seats, voters do And one thing the 2019 and 1997 elections showed was the way seats that had been safe seats for decades can suddenly switch.
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