|
Post by jamie2c on Nov 13, 2021 14:47:42 GMT
What is Sir Cameron planning to do with his fortune when he kicks the bucket ? Leaving the assets to a person seems a bit of a waste when the assets could be used to further the art of musical theatre somehow. The theatres are planned to go to his foundation so I would assume that some of his fortune will be given to the foundation as well. It would need very strict rules, so that no-one uses it for their own financial gain. Some future directors have a tendency to enrich themselves by some scheme or other.
|
|
6,334 posts
|
Post by Jon on Nov 13, 2021 14:59:18 GMT
It would need very strict rules, so that no-one uses it for their own financial gain. Some future directors have a tendency to enrich themselves by some scheme or other. I imagine Cameron will have written in his will about where the assets will go.
|
|
|
Post by Jan on Nov 13, 2021 15:21:34 GMT
I am interested in the arrangements for subsidised shows transferring to the West End. I know years ago there were issues with NT directors getting or not getting paid extra when NT shows transferred and I think Hytner put in new rules. How are directors/designers typically paid for a transfer like that ? If it's a co-production with a commercial producer what's typically the overall % split between the two ?
Take The Mirror and the Light which is a commercial co-production with RSC. What would RSC typically get out of that - do they get a % of the gross or a % of any profits or some sort of fixed "licensing" fee ? Are they in the hole for any money if the show fails commercially (which it seems to have) or are they protected ?
|
|
6,334 posts
|
Post by Jon on Nov 13, 2021 23:24:57 GMT
Does anyone how the Adelphi came to be jointly owned by both LW Theatres and Nederlander and why neither party has bought the other's stake in the theatre? I know when ATG bought the Live Nation theatres years ago, Live Nation's stake in the Dominion was bought by Nederlander who owned the other stake.
|
|
126 posts
|
Post by frontrowcentre on Nov 14, 2021 16:57:23 GMT
We will ever get rid of HP at The Palace?
Loving this threat btw
|
|
4,967 posts
|
Post by TallPaul on Nov 14, 2021 18:06:08 GMT
I have this recollection that the Adelphi, previously owned outright by Nederlander, became the sweeter that secured the rights for Sunset in both London and New York. Nederlander probably thought, or hoped, it was going to be as successful as Phantom, which by 1993 had already been running for seven years. You win some, you loose some!
Then again, even I am wrong sometimes, so may be misremembering.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2021 11:34:08 GMT
Basic question - how much would Eddie Redmayne (or any other a lister) be paid for a west end play?
|
|
|
Post by knowledge on Nov 21, 2021 11:53:57 GMT
Eddie would be outside of the normal A Lister status as it was his mission to make this happen and the producer had to invest so much money in the venue. It literally doesn’t make any financial sense unless the venue can be rented in the same format for future shows. Cabaret wont run more than 2 years-even with star casting every 20 weeks..as eventually proper stars wont want to take over… A major star ‘normally’ works for 7-10% of the box office. Give or take-depending upon venture and length of run. But the vast majority of A listers actually ‘lose’ money by taking theatre rather than tv or film, so its all about how much they really want to do it and then where the precedent is within their agency (CAA/ICM/UNITED/PARADIGM/WME etc) no one within the same stable is going to accept less than one of their acting peers. Eddie will be earning c£10k a week. Same as Jessie. He would insist they get paid the same. She wouldn’t argue! But normally, an A Lister would get a %. Which could be tens of thousands a week…always less for their time than a movie or TV.
Potter will run for 15+ years. Of course.
Don’t know about the Adelphi ownership structure.
Most subsidised theatres do invest or raise investment from their trustees for transfers, but they agree with the commercial partners that they don’t have downside risk beyond the initial investment.
Mostly the salaried staff like Longhurst or Goold or Warchus etc would earn a royalty if shows transfer.
|
|
6,334 posts
|
Post by Jon on Nov 21, 2021 13:29:59 GMT
Eddie has just finished filming Fantastic Beasts 3 so it’ll afford him the opportunity to do Cabaret, likewise Jessie Buckley who has done a fair number of TV and film projects.
|
|
|
Post by jamie2c on Nov 21, 2021 14:36:01 GMT
Eddie has just finished filming Fantastic Beasts 3 so it’ll afford him the opportunity to do Cabaret, likewise Jessie Buckley who has done a fair number of TV and film projects. What would happen if the female lead was almost completely unknown. Yet the male lead was a movie star ? Would equality legislation mean that the female lead has to be paid the same as the male lead (star). (And vice-versa of course).
|
|
|
Post by knowledge on Nov 21, 2021 15:13:18 GMT
Not at all. There is now such legislation. Experience is a factor. Think about sport or strictly. Market forces.
|
|
6,334 posts
|
Post by Jon on Nov 22, 2021 16:46:21 GMT
How much does it cost to hire a theatre for something like An Audience with Adele? They did a fair bit of work to remove the stall seats and adding tables and the staging so assume it wasn't cheap.
|
|
382 posts
|
Post by stevemar on Dec 16, 2021 21:03:26 GMT
Not sure if Knowledge is still posting but with all the cancellations due to Covid/cast/crew illness, how much is covered by insurance or do the producers simply bear the loss? Are there any shows which are close to closing altogether with the current issues?
Surely the margins must be very tight with lost revenue even though I would hope that some ticket holders would be willing to transfer their booking to a later date (so the losses are reduced).
|
|
|
Post by knowledge on Dec 17, 2021 9:28:22 GMT
No insurance anywhere for anyone. The landlords and the conglomerates are fine-they can ride the storm-those owned by banks like Sonia F will be fine. Those clever ones with big hits earning millions like Six will also be fine-its the other independents that will be having terrible pain. Friend. Pugh. Lloyd. Etc. All the subsidised houses will be OK..not great-we are talking mass redundancies and cutbacks. It’s lockdown by stealth with no recovery fund and no furlough. 30-40% of those with transferable skills have left or are looking to leave. West End is dead. Half or more than half are closed tonight. Of course a huge number of fit healthy negative testing actors are having to isolate as they have chose not to be vaccinated. Which means the shows cant go on if there are too many of them in the company/crew. Landlords will give Indepedent producers a big break-its all coming-they have to…remember all of them are owned by Billionaires…Max W at Nimax is worth more than ALW and CM combined so dont believe the ‘poor me’ from certain places….its the workers and the crews and the freelancers that will lose and leave and the half dozen independent producers still left in the west end will have to take enormous debts to get through the next 2 months. The inequality in the business has never been so obvious. Please buy tickets for January-February. If you can. Support the independents where you can. It’s awful.
|
|
382 posts
|
Post by stevemar on Dec 17, 2021 10:32:37 GMT
Thanks knowledge.
I had hoped that following the business interruption insurance case, some losses might be covered, but I suppose insurers tightened up their policies going forward. Also, partially answered my own Q, I recall that theatre and music festival promoters wanted a government backed insurance scheme, but that was not forthcoming.
I have about 20 shows booked for next year, and obviously cash flow is king for theatres - losing money now during their busiest period means they need something to keep coming in early next year.
Just saw on BBC that a director of Belgrade Theatre Coventry refers to refunding £180k for cancellations after 12 performances cancelled and half of cast tested positive for Covid.
Maybe the Cultural Recovery Fund will help, or lobbying for the government backed insurance. But long term damage continues to be done.
|
|
4,458 posts
|
Post by poster J on Dec 17, 2021 11:14:19 GMT
Of course a huge number of fit healthy negative testing actors are having to isolate as they have chose not to be vaccinated. I didn't realise that many West End actors were that stupid. That is almost making me re-think buying any tickets for the New Year as I don't particularly want to be supporting idiots, but I also don't want to punish the sensible ones for their colleagues' stupidity. Luckily many actors are fairly vocal about being vaccinated.
|
|
|
Post by knowledge on Dec 17, 2021 11:22:24 GMT
I think stupid is not quite fair…there are serious religious groups and plenty of young fit women who dont want it as they believe the (considerable) but not majority view that the vaccine may be more dangerous than the virus to young fit people. Of course 95% dont agree-including most but not all of the scientists..I think religious beliefs and the fact young super fit healthy people have more risk of getting killed by a lightening strike needs to be considered…plus of course a vaccinated person still gets it and stil can transmit it. I got covid after double vaccination and my partner got it after a boost. I think everyone should get the vaccine and I think all those working in theatre need to get it and respect the higher risk but we need to have some sort of sensibility around peoples personal choice too. Surely. Anyway- i will keep to business only from now on
|
|
4,458 posts
|
Post by poster J on Dec 17, 2021 12:06:09 GMT
I think stupid is not quite fair…there are serious religious groups and plenty of young fit women who dont want it as they believe the (considerable) but not majority view that the vaccine may be more dangerous than the virus to young fit people. Of course 95% dont agree-including most but not all of the scientists..I think religious beliefs and the fact young super fit healthy people have more risk of getting killed by a lightening strike needs to be considered…plus of course a vaccinated person still gets it and stil can transmit it. I got covid after double vaccination and my partner got it after a boost. I think everyone should get the vaccine and I think all those working in theatre need to get it and respect the higher risk but we need to have some sort of sensibility around peoples personal choice too. Surely. Anyway- i will keep to business only from now on I respect personal choice in relation to vaccines where that has a rational and logical basis. Where the only basis for not getting vaccinated is either a fanatical religious belief (most religions have no objection to vaccination and rightly believe their God has a hand in science) or a complete misreading of the science or refusal to educate themselves I don't think there is any reason to respect those views. They are nothing other than selfish. The lack of personal risk doesn't excuse rejecting social responsibility, especially in a profession that relies on interaction with vast numbers of people. So I stand by my original comment. If performers don't want to have a modicum of care for others then they've chosen the wrong career.
|
|
|
Post by knowledge on Dec 17, 2021 12:44:00 GMT
The global majority in the entire world do not believe their religion to be fanatical. The majority of non white people on the planet are suspicious of vaccines and to be honest-whilst I disagree -it is their risk and their choice-no one else’s-remember- vaccine doesn’t stop transmission. Those with no vaccine will possibly get very sick. Not those with vaccine who aren’t v old or with co morbidity. I agree with you. But I just feel we need to be considerate. Non vaccinated people are NOT putting vaccinated people at risk. That is the science. The vast majority of the world believe in their faith that same sex relationships are wrong. Of course this is not right-but honestly that is what the bible and the Quran say..so people with deep faith may believe this..of course its wrong..but that doesn’t mean that deeply faithful people are fanatical
|
|
18,842 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 17, 2021 13:11:10 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 12:53:26 GMT
Eddie would be outside of the normal A Lister status as it was his mission to make this happen and the producer had to invest so much money in the venue. It literally doesn’t make any financial sense unless the venue can be rented in the same format for future shows. Cabaret wont run more than 2 years-even with star casting every 20 weeks..as eventually proper stars wont want to take over… A major star ‘normally’ works for 7-10% of the box office. Give or take-depending upon venture and length of run. But the vast majority of A listers actually ‘lose’ money by taking theatre rather than tv or film, so its all about how much they really want to do it and then where the precedent is within their agency (CAA/ICM/UNITED/PARADIGM/WME etc) no one within the same stable is going to accept less than one of their acting peers. Eddie will be earning c£10k a week. Same as Jessie. He would insist they get paid the same. She wouldn’t argue! But normally, an A Lister would get a %. Which could be tens of thousands a week…always less for their time than a movie or TV. Potter will run for 15+ years. Of course. Don’t know about the Adelphi ownership structure. Most subsidised theatres do invest or raise investment from their trustees for transfers, but they agree with the commercial partners that they don’t have downside risk beyond the initial investment. Mostly the salaried staff like Longhurst or Goold or Warchus etc would earn a royalty if shows transfer. Jessie went down the acting route rather than going into musical theatre after completing her training post I'd Do Anything but say she had remained in musical theatre. Ironically about 10k a week would be ballpark figure for a top West End leading lady opening a production I'd have thought. All major stars lose money doing theatre but often they have financial freedom to take on these roles. They still get paid well unless they take total minimum for some personal project but they offset that by film work. I don't know how true it is I once heard a story that Dame Judi was asked at a Q and A why she had agreed to be in The Chronicles of Reddick which was much slated and Judi replied anyone would have done it if they'd been offered what I was.
|
|
806 posts
|
Post by duncan on Dec 20, 2021 14:09:00 GMT
Robert Lindsay admits he did three million series of My Family solely to allow him the freedom to do the stage shows of his choosing - so if you saw Onassis you know where the blame lies!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 14:21:00 GMT
Robert Lindsay admits he did three million series of My Family solely to allow him the freedom to do the stage shows of his choosing - so if you saw Onassis you know where the blame lies! Robert had done a lot of TV work before and was probably known for TV work before becoming a big musical star. I never saw Onassis but I read all about it. Love the Terry and June profile picture Duncan. Terry Scott was a very funny man and has sadly become rather forgotten. He was a star of his own shows or the main star in sitcoms for about 25 years, one of the best panto dames ever too. June achieved nationasl treasure status and became a Dame in her own right of course.
|
|
|
Post by inthenose on Dec 20, 2021 18:14:35 GMT
Robert Lindsay admits he did three million series of My Family solely to allow him the freedom to do the stage shows of his choosing - so if you saw Onassis you know where the blame lies! Robert had done a lot of TV work before and was probably known for TV work before becoming a big musical star. I never saw Onassis but I read all about it. Love the Terry and June profile picture Duncan. Terry Scott was a very funny man and has sadly become rather forgotten. He was a star of his own shows or the main star in sitcoms for about 25 years, one of the best panto dames ever too. June achieved nationasl treasure status and became a Dame in her own right of course. Power to the people!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 19:04:24 GMT
Robert had done a lot of TV work before and was probably known for TV work before becoming a big musical star. I never saw Onassis but I read all about it. Love the Terry and June profile picture Duncan. Terry Scott was a very funny man and has sadly become rather forgotten. He was a star of his own shows or the main star in sitcoms for about 25 years, one of the best panto dames ever too. June achieved nationasl treasure status and became a Dame in her own right of course. Power to the people! Citizen Smith was a bit forgotten about for most of the 1980's in John Sullivan's peak period but did get a rerun circa 1992. Always loved Hilda Braid and Peter Vaughan as the original parents in law.
|
|
88 posts
|
Post by anniel on Dec 20, 2021 23:33:07 GMT
As someone who sees a lot of touring shows ‘in the regions’, often in half empty theatres, how is touring a musical financially viable?
Often wet Tuesday nights in Bradford mean small audiences….!
Thanks for this thread, btw….it is fascinating.
|
|
|
Post by knowledge on Dec 21, 2021 6:39:32 GMT
Same as London. Some shows on tour make a lot of money. Some don’t. The deals with the venues can often encourage shows to play regardless as many regional touring venues are subsidised. Most musicals make their money on Thursday to Saturdays of course. It’s pretty easy to work out which ones will make and which ones wont. Of course producers only make money when they have shows on-from the investment that they have raised. So often producers in London - and more so touring the UK - produce a show, always hoping they will make a profit but often they dont-for the investors-but if the money has been raised and the budgets done properly then the producers can actually still pay themselves and their staff even if the show loses its investment. The majority of tours make their money in the 10-12 great venues and then break even or lose in the others. Some shows make money everywhere-clear which ones…some sadly dont work anywhere at all….managing costs is the biggest decider. Of course some people just enjoy sending loads of shows out regardless of the reality that they probably know some will lose and some will win. That’s how BK works and good luck to him-he doesn’t take on any external investment so its entirely his money and his choice. Whatever you may think of the varying quality fo the productions.
Not sure what questions I haven’t answered or tried to. So forgive me if there are many outstanding. Of course we are all dealing with a major crisis again. Perhaps even worse than before.
If you can-book tickets for February and March….none of us are certain about January.
You can still catch and transmit covid even after a booster. Plenty of young fit very healthy people dont fancy the vaccine as frankly they aren’t at risk of serious illness from covid. Look at the issue across professional sport. It’s the same. Agree, its not very sensible as you are likely to have much milder symptoms if vaccinated. But it wont stop transmission. If people test negative each day then they should be allowed to work.
Jessie gets paid the same as Eddie.
|
|
|
Post by teamyali on Dec 21, 2021 8:18:03 GMT
I’m curious why some known name actors prefer performing in subsidised theatres more often than the West End. Are they paid more, or less? Is it a matter of subject or theme of the play? Are there some topics or themes in plays that suit the likes of NT than if it is at Wyndham’s or Noël Coward?
|
|
|
Post by knowledge on Dec 21, 2021 8:32:44 GMT
Subsidised theatres don't need to make money. So they can build high quality/expensive productions with A list creative teams and only run for 6-10 weeks. Often not even 8 shows a week. So much easier on the actor than signing up for 8 shows a week and 12+ weeks minimum commitment. Named actors lose money when they do theatre compared to TV/Film/Voiceover or Advertising work. So why spend more time than necessary. Much easier to go to Almeida or NT or Donmar or even Hampstead and just do 6-7 weeks. Also-it is generally believed that the critics are easier on them in a small subsidised venue. And of course much more of a chance to have a ‘hit’ when only having to fill 3/400 seats a night. Or only 4 shows a week in the pre covid NT world. Gemma Arterton may have hurt her commercial career by doing Made in Dagenham as apart from anything it proved beyond any doubt she wasn’t a ticket selling name and she then didn’t get any big movie offers. But doing a play at the NT-only enhances her reputation. Sorry to single this out. There are many other examples and GA is a very fine actor and a super nice person.
|
|
4,967 posts
|
Post by TallPaul on Dec 21, 2021 9:18:35 GMT
What kind of arrangement do theatres have with the likes of Crossroads and Evolution?
|
|