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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jan 26, 2020 21:36:52 GMT
Where did I suggest you were a Marxist! You were the one who baulked at the word democratic! Corbyn is yesterday’s man, he’s out now and the next leader will be marking the direction. The problem is not the Midlands and the North, the problem is that Labour is seen as a metropolitan party. Large support in major cities is not enough for an election win. Give those from a town based constituency the reins and that will help. Somewhere like Wigan.... Is that cheap to use Democratic in that way in that sentence? Suggest you look two posts back. You said being a socialist I would be better in a fringe Marxist group. Anyway, I'm really proud of the help given to our local food banks, the work we are doing with homeless people and with local hospitals. Big wins for the party in these areas I think and real difference we can make to some peoples lives. Is Democratic Socialist really not a term used anymore? It’s probably one of the clearest descriptions of Labour’s position. if you are fighting elections then, by definition, you are a Democratic Socialist. I really don’t get why you seem so wary of the term. The other possibility is to be in favour of socialism by authoritarian means, which you clearly aren’t as you worked on the election. So I didn’t refer to you at all. Also, as per the repository of all knowledge that is Wikipedia “Corbyn self-identifies as a democratic socialist.” Well, derr, he’s been an MP for decades, what else would he be?
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jan 27, 2020 18:32:49 GMT
Is that cheap to use Democratic in that way in that sentence? Suggest you look two posts back. You said being a socialist I would be better in a fringe Marxist group. Anyway, I'm really proud of the help given to our local food banks, the work we are doing with homeless people and with local hospitals. Big wins for the party in these areas I think and real difference we can make to some peoples lives. Is Democratic Socialist really not a term used anymore? It’s probably one of the clearest descriptions of Labour’s position. if you are fighting elections then, by definition, you are a Democratic Socialist. I really don’t get why you seem so wary of the term. The other possibility is to be in favour of socialism by authoritarian means, which you clearly aren’t as you worked on the election. So I didn’t refer to you at all. Also, as per the repository of all knowledge that is Wikipedia “Corbyn self-identifies as a democratic socialist.” Well, derr, he’s been an MP for decades, what else would he be? I'm not wary of the term, I just think there is a better one. Len McClusky was in the Halfy in Liverpool Saturday. How do you reckon he identifies himself? He was also laughing hysterically at your Marxist comment. Then found out my today my sister was with Jeremy Corbyn Saturday. Well, at the same football match at Blyth Spartans. I could have got the answer direct from the horses mouth.
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2,706 posts
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jan 27, 2020 22:29:59 GMT
Is Democratic Socialist really not a term used anymore? It’s probably one of the clearest descriptions of Labour’s position. if you are fighting elections then, by definition, you are a Democratic Socialist. I really don’t get why you seem so wary of the term. The other possibility is to be in favour of socialism by authoritarian means, which you clearly aren’t as you worked on the election. So I didn’t refer to you at all. Also, as per the repository of all knowledge that is Wikipedia “Corbyn self-identifies as a democratic socialist.” Well, derr, he’s been an MP for decades, what else would he be? I'm not wary of the term, I just think there is a better one. Len McClusky was in the Halfy in Liverpool Saturday. How do you reckon he identifies himself? He was also laughing hysterically at your Marxist comment. Then found out my today my sister was with Jeremy Corbyn Saturday. Well, at the same football match at Blyth Spartans. I could have got the answer direct from the horses mouth. What part of saying that you couldn’t remain in the Labour party if you are a Marxist-Leninist (the only comment I’ve made on Marxism unless you’ve got me mixed up with someone else), does McCluskey find so hilarious? The whole point of Marxist-Leninism (note the distinction from other shades) is to foment a worker’s revolution, not to slog around getting a parliamentary majority (and, yes, I read Marx as a younger man and had endless discussions on the path to Socialism, various isms and such, of which this circular exchange is a sad reminder). Then again, given his record, I can imagine that McCluskey would inevitably fail to see that incompatibility. He’s a dead weight on the Labour Party. You are doing your cause no good by linking to people like him. So, who do you support? Maybe that would give a clearer idea as to what you are trying to say.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jan 28, 2020 21:18:43 GMT
I'm not wary of the term, I just think there is a better one. Len McClusky was in the Halfy in Liverpool Saturday. How do you reckon he identifies himself? He was also laughing hysterically at your Marxist comment. Then found out my today my sister was with Jeremy Corbyn Saturday. Well, at the same football match at Blyth Spartans. I could have got the answer direct from the horses mouth. What part of saying that you couldn’t remain in the Labour party if you are a Marxist-Leninist (the only comment I’ve made on Marxism unless you’ve got me mixed up with someone else), does McCluskey find so hilarious? The whole point of Marxist-Leninism (note the distinction from other shades) is to foment a worker’s revolution, not to slog around getting a parliamentary majority (and, yes, I read Marx as a younger man and had endless discussions on the path to Socialism, various isms and such, of which this circular exchange is a sad reminder). Then again, given his record, I can imagine that McCluskey would inevitably fail to see that incompatibility. He’s a dead weight on the Labour Party. You are doing your cause no good by linking to people like him. So, who do you support? Maybe that would give a clearer idea as to what you are trying to say. Met Uncle Len and all I can be is gutted I never told him I call you Chukka
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2,706 posts
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jan 29, 2020 2:13:34 GMT
What part of saying that you couldn’t remain in the Labour party if you are a Marxist-Leninist (the only comment I’ve made on Marxism unless you’ve got me mixed up with someone else), does McCluskey find so hilarious? The whole point of Marxist-Leninism (note the distinction from other shades) is to foment a worker’s revolution, not to slog around getting a parliamentary majority (and, yes, I read Marx as a younger man and had endless discussions on the path to Socialism, various isms and such, of which this circular exchange is a sad reminder). Then again, given his record, I can imagine that McCluskey would inevitably fail to see that incompatibility. He’s a dead weight on the Labour Party. You are doing your cause no good by linking to people like him. So, who do you support? Maybe that would give a clearer idea as to what you are trying to say. Met Uncle Len and all I can be is gutted I never told him I call you Chukka A politician who I agree with on many things. Honoured to be mentioned alongside him (Umunna that is, not the other guy).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2020 16:08:51 GMT
I wonder how long Len McCluskey will carry on as the head of Unite, he'll turn 70 this summer and will celebrate 10 years in the job come next year so if his prefered candidate is chosen by Labour then might he be prepared to retire. It will certainly be interesting to see who replaces him as he has headed his union for a long time and is a very powerful Trade Unionist.
Whoever eventually replaces him will likewise have a big hand in the future direction of the Labour Party.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jan 29, 2020 19:36:33 GMT
Met Uncle Len and all I can be is gutted I never told him I call you Chukka A politician who I agree with on many things. Honoured to be mentioned alongside him (Umunna that is, not the other guy). I don't want to build my part up, I didn't sit down and debate Das Kapital with McClusky. Just asked if a Socialist was how he would describe himself as a high ranking Labour member whilst passing at the bar.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Feb 1, 2020 13:17:15 GMT
Met Uncle Len and all I can be is gutted I never told him I call you Chukka A politician who I agree with on many things. Honoured to be mentioned alongside him (Umunna that is, not the other guy). Did you join the Chukker's Party?
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Feb 1, 2020 14:08:56 GMT
A politician who I agree with on many things. Honoured to be mentioned alongside him (Umunna that is, not the other guy). Did you join the Chukker's Party? I’ve not been a member of any party since the eighties. Each has too many things that I disagree with (including the Lib Dems), so voting is just a matter of trying to avoid the worst option and, hopefully, changing the electoral system so that we get parties that are relevant to now and not relics of a century ago. There are individual causes that I can get behind (internationalism, electoral reform etc.) but I can’t force myself to agree enough to a wide ranging policy platform.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Feb 2, 2020 9:53:07 GMT
Did you join the Chukker's Party? I’ve not been a member of any party since the eighties. Each has too many things that I disagree with (including the Lib Dems), so voting is just a matter of trying to avoid the worst option and, hopefully, changing the electoral system so that we get parties that are relevant to now and not relics of a century ago. There are individual causes that I can get behind (internationalism, electoral reform etc.) but I can’t force myself to agree enough to a wide ranging policy platform. No I meant the Tiggers, before he joined the Lib Dems but I take your point. Getting rid of the Tories was great in 1997 but it wasn't my party. I'd left long before Blair was elected. Can do some really good things outside of a political system or organisation also.
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Post by TallPaul on Feb 24, 2020 17:05:24 GMT
I suspect it's a thankless job, but isn't it today that individual members (and supporters) can finally start to vote for their preferred candidate?
If Rebecca Long-Bailey is elected leader, the Conservatives will spend the next five years reminding everyone that she's Corbyn Mark II; if Keir Starmer is elected, they'll spend the next five years reminding everyone that he tried very hard to stop Brexit; and if Lisa Nandy is elected, the Conservatives probably don't need to do anything, except repeatedly ask "Who?".
My own view is that any party whose members, however small in number, think Yorkshire Tea should be boycotted for something it had no involvement in, deserves to spend many years in the political wilderness. And I don't even drink tea!
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Post by The Matthew on Feb 24, 2020 17:36:59 GMT
if Keir Starmer is elected, they'll spend the next five years reminding everyone that he tried very hard to stop Brexit That may or may not be an advantage, depending on how well Boris Johnson can deliver on the promises he made back when he thought it would be someone else's job to keep them.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 14:57:19 GMT
Things seem to have gone a bit quiet on this recently but with the floods, Covid 19, Harry and all the other stuff it isn't such headline news. I see the 3 remaining contenders are doing some public meetings in March which might be of interest to party voters.
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