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Post by ruthieh on Jul 17, 2022 21:46:28 GMT
My daughter was doing work experience there last week, so I had several days of collecting her and listening in the car park to the singing. What I heard sounded pretty fantastic!
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Post by bobbievanhusen on Jul 17, 2022 22:14:23 GMT
I can't see how it's going to work. That style of music doesnt lend itself to the epic rock of Jim Steinman that's part of this show. Agree. 'Tyre Tracks' is going to sound very different on a washboard and banjo.
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Post by chernjam on Jul 26, 2022 0:38:52 GMT
Is anyone from these boards going to see this? WDTW is one that I'm most disappointed has never had a real run here in the US and that I've really wanted to see
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Post by ruthieh on Jul 26, 2022 6:33:45 GMT
I’m going but not until 1st September!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2022 6:59:49 GMT
I can't see how it's going to work. That style of music doesnt lend itself to the epic rock of Jim Steinman that's part of this show. Agree. 'Tyre Tracks' is going to sound very different on a washboard and banjo. Agree, I like the idea of going blue grass in theory, but the show was written with a very rock sound. Some songs should work OK but Tyre Tracks (a personal favourite) I just can't see working. Also, these gushy luvvy (for want of a better word) trailers i just find a bit cringe and off putting
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 26, 2022 7:19:24 GMT
Agree. 'Tyre Tracks' is going to sound very different on a washboard and banjo. Agree, I like the idea of going blue grass in theory, but the show was written with a very rock sound. Some songs should work OK but Tyre Tracks (a personal favourite) I just can't see working. Also, these gushy luvvy (for want of a better word) trailers i just find a bit cringe and off putting Totally agree.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jul 26, 2022 7:58:56 GMT
Agree. 'Tyre Tracks' is going to sound very different on a washboard and banjo. Agree, I like the idea of going blue grass in theory, but the show was written with a very rock sound. Some songs should work OK but Tyre Tracks (a personal favourite) I just can't see working. Also, these gushy luvvy (for want of a better word) trailers i just find a bit cringe and off putting Maybe some of the cast also play electric guitars?
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Post by tmesis on Jul 26, 2022 8:29:57 GMT
It’s always a great pleasure to visit The Watermill - definitely the most idyllic theatre in Britain and run by such lovely, friendly staff. I’ve seen virtually all their summer musicals for the last 10 years and I’m waffling a bit because I’m not sure what to make of this. (I wonder if ALW will attend considering he lives only 6 miles away?)
I’m also not the best person to offer an opinion on this as I’m still searching for a Lloyd Webber musical that I can really enjoy. This was in with more of a chance since it has fair bits of spoken dialogue and I find him at his most indigestible when he does his more usual through-composed shtick. Anyway I found it all a bit meh. I’m not a fan of the actor-musician presentation but The Watermill normally do this rather well. Their version of A Little Night Music, which really does call for instrumental sophistication, was truly excellent but this was just OK. The low point was some poor intonation on the cello played by Toby Webster as the sheriff - it’s also a most inconvenient instrument from an actor-musician point of view. The best thing about this were the two leads: Robert Tripolino as The Man and Lydia White as Swallow were both excellent with beautiful expressive voices. Less good were the children - very ‘school production,’ the general casting of the older characters who looked almost the same age as the youngsters and the final immolation which was pretty feeble.
The thing that disappointed me most though was the score. It’s just so bland. Lloyd Webber’s music is always predictable. At least we are spared his sub-operatic, Pucciniesque pretensions, but does every song always have to do what you expect it to? No Matter What does work better in context than the ghastly Boyzone version but it’s still a banal song (and is reprised too often.)
Running time 2hrs 10 mins
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Post by sam22 on Jul 26, 2022 9:00:51 GMT
Is anyone from these boards going to see this? WDTW is one that I'm most disappointed has never had a real run here in the US and that I've really wanted to see I'm there on Saturday for the matinee!
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Post by chernjam on Jul 26, 2022 16:56:59 GMT
It’s always a great pleasure to visit The Watermill - definitely the most idyllic theatre in Britain and run by such lovely, friendly staff. I’ve seen virtually all their summer musicals for the last 10 years and I’m waffling a bit because I’m not sure what to make of this. (I wonder if ALW will attend considering he lives only 6 miles away?) I’m also not the best person to offer an opinion on this as I’m still searching for a Lloyd Webber musical that I can really enjoy. This was in with more of a chance since it has fair bits of spoken dialogue and I find him at his most indigestible when he does his more usual through-composed shtick. Anyway I found it all a bit meh. I’m not a fan of the actor-musician presentation but The Watermill normally do this rather well. Their version of A Little Night Music, which really does call for instrumental sophistication, was truly excellent but this was just OK. The low point was some poor intonation on the cello played by Toby Webster as the sheriff - it’s also a most inconvenient instrument from an actor-musician point of view. The best thing about this were the two leads: Robert Tripolino as The Man and Lydia White as Swallow were both excellent with beautiful expressive voices. Less good were the children - very ‘school production,’ the general casting of the older characters who looked almost the same age as the youngsters and the final immolation which was pretty feeble. The thing that disappointed me most though was the score. It’s just so bland. Lloyd Webber’s music is always predictable. At least we are spared his sub-operatic, Pucciniesque pretensions, but does every song always have to do what you expect it to? No Matter What does work better in context than the ghastly Boyzone version but it’s still a banal song (and is reprised too often.) Running time 2hrs 10 mins Thanks for this - interesting feedback. I've yet to see any production I like with actor-musician presentation. It all feels very cheap to me and distracting. As an ALW fan, will be curious to hear from other ALW fans their reactions
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Post by karloscar on Jul 26, 2022 17:15:51 GMT
Definitely the blandest of his bland scores, with some godawful lyrics to go. Resetting the story in the USA added nothing but awful accents, and the naivety of the aged up Swallow just makes her look dim. (Best use of cello in an actor musician production was Craig Revile Horror's Chess where they all fell over as Freddie threw the Chess game. Nothing to do with playing, but it looked dramatic.)
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Post by max on Jul 26, 2022 17:59:25 GMT
I think it has some fantastic lyrics: "Their vaccinating Satan who's shaking all over pneumonia"(Cold) "The kids out playing softball in the fading Summer night, the teenage lovers at the drive-in, the glow of the dashboard light" (Unsettled Scores) "He's there in the foreboding you feel in your bones, he's there in the graveyard chipping names on the stones" (Wrestle With The Devil). I also think there's great variety in the score - don't know how it carries in these actor-musician orchestrations.
You may not like recent/any scores of his, but across a career I'd say ALW has written many songs that start in surprising places, and go in unusual directions - 'Dangerous Jade/Peron's Latest Flame' - Evita , 'Superstar' (JCS) , 'Goodnight and Thank You' (Evita), 'Unsettled Scores' in this one (Whistle Down The Wind) is bonkers in its twists.
Plus the wonderfully odd 'Annie Christmas' in 'Whistle Down The Wind'. Is that in this version, or have they gone for the rather bland replacement 'The Gang' that I saw in the weak Bill Kenwright staging?
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Post by distantcousin on Jul 26, 2022 18:17:12 GMT
I think I would quite like it. The show is very dear to my heart. But yes, the young actors playing grown adult roles feels odd.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 26, 2022 18:46:16 GMT
In that promo video I couldn’t work out who was playing kids versus adults. Are they all playing adults? Yes yes yes I know this is major yawn and the old “police officers look so young” but seriously none of them look over 21. Who is the Watermill’s demographic?
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Post by singingbird on Jul 28, 2022 23:40:46 GMT
Well, I made it out to the Watermill tonight for this. Had definitely been looking forward to it, as I have a soft spot for the show and think certain sections - especially the last 15 mins or so of each act, as well as songs like the Soliloquy and A Kiss is a Terrible Thing to Waste - are extremely dramatic and compelling. I've been hoping for several years that someone really innovative and smart would revive this and do something special with it.
Unfortunately, this isn't that production. Certain choices were made by the director/choreographer that I think highlight the weaknesses in the material - particularly the quite unfocussed stop/start nature of the first act and the lack of real psychological insight into the characters.
What stood out for me were a lot of (in fact, pretty much all of) the performances - especially Robert Tripolino, who was magnetic and unhinged as The Man, and Lydia White, who seemed equally unhinged and damaged as Swallow. Unfortunately, The Man is a fairly secondary character, so Tripolino rarely got the chance to show what he was capable of, and White just seemed about five years too old for Swallow, which just felt really odd. But both sang their guts out, and were extremely compelling. I wish they'd had the production their performances deserved. What didn't work... well, first of all, the show just doesn't suit the Watermill's stage. It's a show of wide skies and huge emotions, and it lost all atmosphere and yearning in such a tiny space. We felt like we were inside the barn the entire time. It was claustrophobic and dull to look at.
I love the Watermill so much, but this is the wrong show for it. Possibly a radical re-interpretation would have worked better (if, for example, it was all happening in Swallow's head as she had a mental breakdown brought on through grief). There were actually hints of that here, through some rather strikingly strange choreography, but if that's what they were going for then the production didn't have the courage to commit, so it just ended up being an awkward mishmash of naturalism with some stylised stuff sitting on top. This just made it feel a bit like a student production that was trying to be clever.
Even worse, and this was utterly unforgivable, was the awful nails-on-a-black board out of tune playing. I'm not going to single anyone out, but there were several people who weren't anywhere near good enough on their instruments. It really sounded like an amateur production at times, and was totally unlistenable. There were moments when it came together okay - especially the more rock parts of the score - but whenever it needed subtlety, or a big lush orchestral sound, it was all over the place.
I don't blame the performers. It's a tough call being cast in an actor-musician show. You need people who can act, sing, dance and play at least one instrument, memorising an entire script and instrumental score - and are right for the part. How many people are there who can tick all those boxes? But honestly, we need to stop with these actor musician shows if casting directors can't cast them to a sufficiently high standard, because it just ruins everything. This was by far the worst playing I have ever heard in a professional musical, and I have seen a lot of shows.
I also thought that the orchestrations weren't properly thought through for an actor musician show. There were many songs in which you were suddenly distracted by an unnecessary instrumental counter melody coming from one side of the stage. The different sounds were often not balanced at all and, because they come from every possible direction, it's really distracting. Some of the gentler songs would have sounded lovely with a more organic folk feel. Instead we get random string or woodwind lines that feel unnecessarily fiddly, over written and which pull against the songs. Put simply, aside from the singing, this was a musical mess.
I'm pleased to note that Annie Christmas (one of the score's best songs) has been re-instated. And the bluegrass feel was largely confined to Cold, where it worked really well (although the washboard playing was way too loud and drowned out a lot of the other instruments.) It was never very authentically bluegrass, though, and a lot more could have been done in that direction elsewhere in the score. The one bit of re-arranging I did think really worked was having the first couple of verses of No Matter What accompanied by the children playing classroom instruments - toy piano, chime bars, triangle etc.
This production wasn't short on ideas, but I feel like it dabbled with them and then pulled away, afraid perhaps of alienating the audience. One day maybe this show will get a great production, but I feel like I'm being generous even giving this 3 stars, despite the high standard of most of the acting.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 29, 2022 5:35:05 GMT
Sounds like a right mess. And this despite “our genius musical supervisor Stewart Morely” as he was described in that promo vid.
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Post by max on Jul 29, 2022 16:01:13 GMT
Well, I made it out to the Watermill tonight for this. Had definitely been looking forward to it, as I have a soft spot for the show and think certain sections - especially the last 15 mins or so of each act, as well as songs like the Soliloquy and A Kiss is a Terrible Thing to Waste - are extremely dramatic and compelling. I've been hoping for several years that someone really innovative and smart would revive this and do something special with it. Unfortunately, this isn't that production. Certain choices were made by the director/choreographer that I think highlight the weaknesses in the material - particularly the quite unfocussed stop/start nature of the first act and the lack of real psychological insight into the characters. What stood out for me were a lot of (in fact, pretty much all of) the performances - especially Robert Tripolino, who was magnetic and unhinged as The Man, and Lydia White, who seemed equally unhinged and damaged as Swallow. Unfortunately, The Man is a fairly secondary character, so Tripolino rarely got the chance to show what he was capable of, and White just seemed about five years too old for Swallow, which just felt really odd. But both sang their guts out, and were extremely compelling. I wish they'd had the production their performances deserved. What didn't work... well, first of all, the show just doesn't suit the Watermill's stage. It's a show of wide skies and huge emotions, and it lost all atmosphere and yearning in such a tiny space. We felt like we were inside the barn the entire time. It was claustrophobic and dull to look at. I love the Watermill so much, but this is the wrong show for it. Possibly a radical re-interpretation would have worked better (if, for example, it was all happening in Swallow's head as she had a mental breakdown brought on through grief). There were actually hints of that here, through some rather strikingly strange choreography, but if that's what they were going for then the production didn't have the courage to commit, so it just ended up being an awkward mishmash of naturalism with some stylised stuff sitting on top. This just made it feel a bit like a student production that was trying to be clever. Even worse, and this was utterly unforgivable, was the awful nails-on-a-black board out of tune playing. I'm not going to single anyone out, but there were several people who weren't anywhere near good enough on their instruments. It really sounded like an amateur production at times, and was totally unlistenable. There were moments when it came together okay - especially the more rock parts of the score - but whenever it needed subtlety, or a big lush orchestral sound, it was all over the place. I don't blame the performers. It's a tough call being cast in an actor-musician show. You need people who can act, sing, dance and play at least one instrument, memorising an entire script and instrumental score - and are right for the part. How many people are there who can tick all those boxes? But honestly, we need to stop with these actor musician shows if casting directors can't cast them to a sufficiently high standard, because it just ruins everything. This was by far the worst playing I have ever heard in a professional musical, and I have seen a lot of shows. I also thought that the orchestrations weren't properly thought through for an actor musician show. There were many songs in which you were suddenly distracted by an unnecessary instrumental counter melody coming from one side of the stage. The different sounds were often not balanced at all and, because they come from every possible direction, it's really distracting. Some of the gentler songs would have sounded lovely with a more organic folk feel. Instead we get random string or woodwind lines that feel unnecessarily fiddly, over written and which pull against the songs. Put simply, aside from the singing, this was a musical mess. I'm pleased to note that Annie Christmas (one of the score's best songs) has been re-instated. And the bluegrass feel was largely confined to Cold, where it worked really well (although the washboard playing was way too loud and drowned out a lot of the other instruments.) It was never very authentically bluegrass, though, and a lot more could have been done in that direction elsewhere in the score. The one bit of re-arranging I did think really worked was having the first couple of verses of No Matter What accompanied by the children playing classroom instruments - toy piano, chime bars, triangle etc. This production wasn't short on ideas, but I feel like it dabbled with them and then pulled away, afraid perhaps of alienating the audience. One day maybe this show will get a great production, but I feel like I'm being generous even giving this 3 stars, despite the high standard of most of the acting. Hooray for 'Annie Christmas' being back in, anyway! I love the tinge of Kurt Weill's 'Pirate Jenny' in it. Would like to see this production, but feels like they needed an even longer time to develop it and rehearse?
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Post by chernjam on Jul 31, 2022 20:01:51 GMT
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Post by chernjam on Jul 31, 2022 20:02:47 GMT
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Post by Seriously on Jul 31, 2022 20:06:55 GMT
I think they'll be very happy with the 5 star reviews.
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Post by inthenose on Jul 31, 2022 20:36:45 GMT
I think they'll be very happy with the 5 star reviews. I think you could be right on that one. They’re a lot more likely to be happy with a 5 star review than a 1 star review - what an excellent point.
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Post by Seriously on Jul 31, 2022 21:30:25 GMT
They'll be happier with it than with the comments on here.
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Post by karloscar on Jul 31, 2022 21:44:50 GMT
The Guardian seems to give ***** ratings to shows that really don't merit them, written by critics whose lack of theatre knowledge is apparent from the opening sentence.
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Post by distantcousin on Aug 1, 2022 10:47:06 GMT
The Guardian seems to give ***** ratings to shows that really don't merit them, written by critics whose lack of theatre knowledge is apparent from the opening sentence. Oh really?
Yes, the reviews have been very positive so far. The only scathing one have been on here.
I think the show sounds great, but would need a bigger cast and set to make it work properly.
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Post by theoracle on Aug 4, 2022 19:46:06 GMT
At the interval of this and wow, I forgot how intense Robert Tripolino’s stage presence is. His big number was just theatrical magic - so good to see him back on a British stage. I suppose I’m a bit of a softie for Lloyd Webber but I got goosebumps hearing this score - the cast are all very talented and the updates Tom Jackson-Greeves have done is very welcome
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Post by Phantom of London on Aug 6, 2022 12:53:11 GMT
Surprised it got a massive 5 stars from the Guardian, then again they gave the awful Cinderella the same.
As for me, I’m sitting by the river having a coffee, before going in.
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Post by Phantom of London on Aug 6, 2022 21:04:18 GMT
Saw this at today’s matinee.
I have always at a soft spot for this musical and I also rate the late Jim Steinman highly, as a top draw lyricist.The show has some great songs, one of my favourites and is one of my favourite musical theatre songs period is ‘unsettled score,’ which has been renamed now ‘Soliloquy.’ The final 3 songs are brilliant especially the duo between the man and swallow for ‘nature of the beast.’
I also love how the musical has been moved from Cumbria to Louisiana which is where the American Bible belt is, which is topical at the moments, as that religious movement are violating women’s rights, via the law courts. UK isn’t a real god fearing country it once was thankfully, so doesn’t really resonate here, as it did many years back. I also loved the setting in the Watermill, as it felt like a actual barn, where the man hides out.
What I will never get my head round and that is the actor/musician concept, it doesn’t work for me, seeing someone play a dramatic scene, then go and play the violin or other instruments. although this genre seemed more subtle here than past shows. I understand why the Watermill need to do this type of show, due to venue limitations. A big shout to the children who sung no matter what beautifully and did the same with basic instruments.
I would be surprised if this ended up in the West End again, but could it have life on the road?
4 stars.
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Post by Oliver on Aug 9, 2022 17:29:45 GMT
I loved the original musical in London but detested Bill Kenright's tacky reworking of the show. Every single creative decision he made diminished the musical in some way. He has no taste, no creative talent, and no sensitivity to music, he is like a rank amateur. The original London production suffered from the musical's book which was terribly thin, cardboard characters, cringeworthy dialogue at times, a somewhat naïve depiction of racial tensions in the Deep South that surely required more insight and skilful handling? But in terms of the music, lyrics, and production, it was a thrilling show. Yes, I agree that Unsettled Scores (the original version) is a brilliant song. I dislike the renaming of the song as Soliloquy (although I guess that's what it was called in the Washington DC try out) and I also dislike the swapped lyric, another one of Kenwright's *ingenious* ideas. I can't understand why ALW allows him this kind of creative freedom, what does he see in him? As for the new production, I haven't seen it, and I have no intention of doing so because of the moronic *cast play the instruments* idea. There is no point to this other than to be artsy for the sake of it and to save money. It's probably what guaranteed the good reviews though.
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Post by thistimetomorrow on Aug 9, 2022 20:00:08 GMT
For anyone who's seen this, are they fairly good at starting and ending on time?
Also, I saw they seemed to have run out of slots for booking a pre theatre meal. Does anyone know if I'd still be able to grab something to eat without booking?
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Post by singingbird on Aug 9, 2022 21:07:24 GMT
For anyone who's seen this, are they fairly good at starting and ending on time? Also, I saw they seemed to have run out of slots for booking a pre theatre meal. Does anyone know if I'd still be able to grab something to eat without booking? No idea about food, but it started and ended bang on time when I saw it. I'm curious as to whether anyone else who has seen it had the same issue with the musicians that I did? Maybe I just went on an off night for some reason, but some of the playing really was amateur standard - especially the more orchestral instruments. I haven't seen any other mention of this, however, either on here or in reviews, and I'm sure if it'd been like that at other performances it would have been picked up on!
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