959 posts
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Post by nash16 on Dec 15, 2019 23:22:48 GMT
Jaysus...I think I may become a therapist... Please don't!!
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Post by intoanewlife on Dec 15, 2019 23:43:07 GMT
Jaysus...I think I may become a therapist... Please don't!! I'll give you mates rates x
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1,276 posts
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Post by Dave B on Dec 17, 2019 9:53:11 GMT
We saw it last night. I had avoided the spoilers and went in only knowing {Spoiler - click to view}that something happened towards the end that had an option of participation.
I really don't know what I thought to be honest. We spent a good portion of the trip home thinking and discussing so on that basis alone, it has to be a success. The cast are fabulous and that's worth a note, I think. Particularly taken with Donna Banya who, whatever you think of the ending, delivers it spectacularly.
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Post by londonpostie on Dec 18, 2019 17:24:10 GMT
Quite the afternoon! I have another visit booked and, at the end, plan to do the opposite of what I did on this occasion.
Have to say on first impression - as humble amateur hack - it felt a bit 'A Day in the Life' (i.e. two or three decent ideas welded together by George Martin). So, pondering the structural cohesion a little - sometimes you end up with more than the sum of the parts, other times not so much ... A lot of fun though.
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Post by londonpostie on Dec 19, 2019 0:04:32 GMT
Atm, what's difficult for me is when Donna Banya is standing in front of the stage - and hasn't been there long, switching to her normal accent - and says 'the play is over now ..', before beginning a whole new speech. Later she moves to the middle of the auditorium, still speaking.
Breaking with convention isn't necessarily problematic but it was the point I semi-disengaged from the monologue and fully decided to not participate. The entertainment had concluded - what she had to say may or not have been interesting but I was quite keen to get on with my afternoon.
It's that distinction between what is and what isn't part of play - I'm interested in what the writer has to say (through their craft). Donna Banya speaking in an American accent playing the role of a teenager is one thing, Donna Banya speaking in her natural voice after announcing the end of the entertainment ... felt more like an imposition. That was a social discomfort.
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Post by youngoffender on Dec 19, 2019 13:29:57 GMT
Atm, what's difficult for me is when Donna Banya is standing in front of the stage - and hasn't been there long, switching to her normal accent - and says 'the play is over now ..', before beginning a whole new speech. Later she moves to the middle of the auditorium, still speaking. Breaking with convention isn't necessarily problematic but it was the point I semi-disengaged from the monologue and fully decided to not participate. The entertainment had concluded - what she had to say may or not have been interesting but I was quite keen to get on with my afternoon. It's that distinction between what is and what isn't part of play - I'm interested in what the writer has to say (through their craft). Donna Banya speaking in an American accent playing the role of a teenager is one thing, Donna Banya speaking in her natural voice after announcing the end of the entertainment ... felt more like an imposition. That was a social discomfort. Completely agree. It's as if Sibblies Drury did not have confidence in her own writing, the director and cast who gave it life, or the intelligence of the audience to work it out: so she made one of the actors explain what the play meant. I came for drama, not a lecture, and very good drama it was too.
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Post by intoanewlife on Dec 19, 2019 15:12:12 GMT
Atm, what's difficult for me is when Donna Banya is standing in front of the stage - and hasn't been there long, switching to her normal accent - and says 'the play is over now ..', before beginning a whole new speech. Later she moves to the middle of the auditorium, still speaking. Breaking with convention isn't necessarily problematic but it was the point I semi-disengaged from the monologue and fully decided to not participate. The entertainment had concluded - what she had to say may or not have been interesting but I was quite keen to get on with my afternoon. It's that distinction between what is and what isn't part of play - I'm interested in what the writer has to say (through their craft). Donna Banya speaking in an American accent playing the role of a teenager is one thing, Donna Banya speaking in her natural voice after announcing the end of the entertainment ... felt more like an imposition. That was a social discomfort. I am going on Monday night with my other half who is American, so it'll be interesting to see his reaction as he has no idea what it's about. I too thought the 'transition' was very clumsily handled and that would be my main criticism of how that section is handled and why it is so misunderstood. It comes across as being combative when it shouldn't considering what we are being asked to do. I went along with it as for me it was a part of the show, but this time I am not going to.
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5,571 posts
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Post by lynette on Dec 19, 2019 16:46:08 GMT
It’s part of the play though isn’t it? Or people could get up and leave? This thread is so veiled in mist I can’t work out what happens.
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Post by londonpostie on Dec 19, 2019 17:31:10 GMT
Lyn, perhaps not so much 'veiled' as awkward or challenging to form a conventional response. It's radical, a unique experience. Here's some discussion from Saturday Review a couple of weeks ago - first item: www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000c2w4
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Post by Latecomer on Dec 19, 2019 19:21:08 GMT
This thread has made me chuckle!!!! Like the writer of the play didn’t know what they were doing......have a look back at the thread and then tell me it hasn’t provoked discussion and made some of you consider how you feel. I mean there’s a lot of indignation in there too but....
Sometimes life is too cosy and tidy and predictable.
I found this uncomfortable at times but it has stayed with me and it’s one of those plays that I think is cleverer the more I think about it!
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1,845 posts
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Post by NeilVHughes on Dec 20, 2019 16:22:29 GMT
Young Vic released some Lucky Dip seats today an will be seeing this early in the new Year.
After seeing A Kind of People at the Royal Court and Unknown Rivers at Hampstead recently will be interesting to see how they all compare.
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776 posts
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Post by latefortheoverture on Dec 22, 2019 0:30:55 GMT
Just missed the Lucky Dip seats that were released the other day, anyone had luck with the returns queue? Seems I'm very late to the party!
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1,188 posts
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Post by theatrefan77 on Dec 22, 2019 0:44:47 GMT
Overall I was disappointed. It is a thought-provoking play which attempts to use different techniques to dramatic effect, but for me it failed miserably. It starts well but then it becomes patchy and muddled. It tries to be too clever and ends up being just pretentious. The end did nothing for me, but by then I was totally disengaged. Just my opinion of course. In spite of everything I'm glad I went.
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Post by luvvie23 on Dec 25, 2019 16:22:04 GMT
I loved the play. I thought it was more event theatre than pure story telling. As a white, 30 something Male, I felt uncomfortable and a bit embarrassed. But myself and my partner came away discussing our different reasons of why we felt a bit embarrassed. But the truth is after a week of processing it I feel that the writer did the right thing. I am a privileged Male and life is a little bit easier for me. And the play reminded me of that fact.
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459 posts
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Post by drmaplewood on Jan 3, 2020 8:21:22 GMT
Just missed the Lucky Dip seats that were released the other day, anyone had luck with the returns queue? Seems I'm very late to the party! Any luck with day seats? I’m out of the country until next week but really want to see this.
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776 posts
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Post by latefortheoverture on Jan 6, 2020 12:10:16 GMT
Just missed the Lucky Dip seats that were released the other day, anyone had luck with the returns queue? Seems I'm very late to the party! Any luck with day seats? I’m out of the country until next week but really want to see this. I kept ringing the box office, and on my 4th try I got lucky with 2 row D returns for later in the month! Just keep ringing- some staff will say it's sold out straight away, and be quite abrupt. But I always asked if they could check the system for the latest updates. And each time I asked they had something, but it wasn't until the 4th time that something suited my needs. Good luck, I'm sure you'll get something!
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1,845 posts
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Post by NeilVHughes on Jan 6, 2020 17:52:32 GMT
After the subtlety of A Kind of People and especially Unknown Rivers found this particularly disappointing as it didn’t give the space for sub-luminal racism which on reflection after seeing the other two plays is by definition the toughest form of racism to counter as it is below the surface and impacts all our daily interactions even if ‘unknowingly’
This play didn’t give me a cause for reflection in the way the other two plays did and found the second part and especially the ending undermined the intent, is it space or the right to exist equally in all spaces that is expected and for me it is the latter which is why I did not participate in the denouement.
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2,502 posts
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Post by n1david on Jan 11, 2020 17:45:21 GMT
There’s an argument that if you intend to provoke people, you shouldn’t then be surprised if that provocation leads to unexpected behaviour...
NB I wasn’t there, but Twitter reports that the situation was genuinely unpleasant - however given the structure of the play, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for at least some of the audience to wonder if this was planted behaviour.
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Post by intoanewlife on Jan 11, 2020 18:50:41 GMT
There’s an argument that if you intend to provoke people, you shouldn’t then be surprised if that provocation leads to unexpected behaviour... NB I wasn’t there, but Twitter reports that the situation was genuinely unpleasant - however given the structure of the play, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for at least some of the audience to wonder if this was planted behaviour. Why? Because there no such thing as racist middle aged white men?
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2,502 posts
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Post by n1david on Jan 12, 2020 2:29:35 GMT
No, of course there’s such a thing as racist middle aged white men. But it’s possible that some members of the audience thought that this could be a cast member or a plant designed to provoke a different type of reaction from the audience or to be more directly confrontational to the cast. As I said, I wasn’t there and I am certainly not defending his actions or views in any way whatsoever. It’s more an observation that when the fourth wall is smashed so comprehensively as it is in this play, other audience members might look at unusual audience reactions and wonder if they too have been staged (in the immediate moments afterwards).
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Post by intoanewlife on Jan 12, 2020 16:10:17 GMT
No, of course there’s such a thing as racist middle aged white men. But it’s possible that some members of the audience thought that this could be a cast member or a plant designed to provoke a different type of reaction from the audience or to be more directly confrontational to the cast. As I said, I wasn’t there and I am certainly not defending his actions or views in any way whatsoever. It’s more an observation that when the fourth wall is smashed so comprehensively as it is in this play, other audience members might look at unusual audience reactions and wonder if they too have been staged (in the immediate moments afterwards). Ah gotcha. I highly doubt it. The show doesn't need it and it's sold out so I doubt they need to pull off any stunts at this late stage of the game. I believe in New York it got a lot of these kind of reactions, it was only a matter of time before someone cracked here.
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Post by Snciole on Jan 14, 2020 18:22:22 GMT
Er... Have any people of colour on here seen this. I am going on Saturday and the spoilers for the end sound very intriguing. As a light skinned person of colour it all sounds like it will create havoc and judgement.
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Post by intoanewlife on Jan 14, 2020 19:48:29 GMT
Er... Have any people of colour on here seen this. I am going on Saturday and the spoilers for the end sound very intriguing. As a light skinned person of colour it all sounds like it will create havoc and judgement. I saw 2 memorable moments from black audience members. One was a young black guy who was scolding his white mate for participating in a certain point in the proceedings. The other was an older black woman who proclaimed loudly when it was all over 'well I don't even know what the hell was just going on'... Take from that what you will lol
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834 posts
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Post by bordeaux on Jan 14, 2020 20:07:17 GMT
Er... Have any people of colour on here seen this. I am going on Saturday and the spoilers for the end sound very intriguing. As a light skinned person of colour it all sounds like it will create havoc and judgement. There was no havoc when I was there. We reacted as you would expect a largely liberal middle-class UK audience to react, that is to say in different ways but not quite as, say, a US audience might.
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Post by Snciole on Jan 14, 2020 20:40:26 GMT
I think I might react like the old black woman. What a queen.
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Post by zahidf on Jan 14, 2020 21:12:47 GMT
I saw what they were doing, and some of it was excellent, but overall I think it felt disconnected and it didn't quite work.
When I went, I found it hilarious how everyone didn't respond at the end, until one person did and suddenly 90% of the audience who qualified followed them!
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Post by zahidf on Jan 14, 2020 21:13:34 GMT
An older white man was demanding an explanation for both the show and the young woman's politics / viewpoint the day I was there, but that was all. He just made himself look a bit of a plank, to be honest, and the actor ignored him. Yeeesshhh. Its billed as a political play in a liberal theatre. Not sure what he expected
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Post by Stasia on Jan 15, 2020 13:10:37 GMT
I liked all the ideas the play rises and makes you think of, but not in its ending. While it was the talk about race and perception of people with different skin colour in America, it was one thing, but when the actress was talking to the audience, to me directly, I felt that it looks like people forgetting that there are white people from "third world countries" who possess significantly fewer rights than, say, a POC in the UK. As a Russian in Russia, I don't feel protected, I feel that our human rights are in such a deep hole, I am not able to live where I want to live because of the immigration laws and even my UK tourist visa that I had to get to see that play cost more than what I earn in 2 weeks. Even if I was able to emigrate to the UK or another European country (and I'm not because of the legislation), I would still be discriminated compared to those who have darker skins but "proper" passports. Every day I am risking to get 3 years in jail for saying that I support LGBT rights or for criticising the authorities. I have to bribe people to get "free" cancer treatment (and then pay for the medicine itself). And I am ready to bet my money that if we take 1000 random POC in the UK and compare with 1000 random Russians, you'd be surprised to see who has fewer rights and more discriminatory situations in their everyday life.
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Post by intoanewlife on Jan 15, 2020 19:55:33 GMT
This play is about racism. Russians are not a race. What Stasia describes so powerfully in her post is xenophobia, which while based on the same ignorance and prejudice is a different thing. You can hide your nationality, you can't hide your skin colour. Women and people of colour will always cop the worst of it.
Pretty much everyone is discriminated against for some reason or another which is why most of us develop empathy for other people. It is that way from the moment we start mixing with people outside of our insular family group and often even within that family group. It comes from the fact that we are all incorrectly taught at a very early age that our self esteem and importance is based on what other people think of us and for people to like us we must be 'better' than someone else. This of course is the exact of opposite of what self esteem actually is. Self esteem comes from within us, not from outside of us.
We then go through the rest of our lives comparing ourselves to others and wanting to be better than them so we feel better about ourselves. But to be better than someone else we have to choose the people we think we are better than and they must become 'lesser' to us. The easiest way to do that is to pick those who we perceive or are taught are the opposite of us. Those that don't look like us, those we presume are weaker, those we can beat easily. They become our first targets and we lose all sense of empathy for our chosen victims. They deserve everything they get.
It is usually those with the least amount of self esteem who are the most racist/xenophobic and they usually get their strength from groups instead of remaining individuals because they need that group to feed their self esteem. It makes them feel powerful, it makes them feel superior. That power becomes their replacement for self esteem and they become addicted to it.
At the moment we have a whole generation that are fighting to become individuals everyone worships by turning into something they are not, while at the same time falling over themselves to fit into as many groups as possible to prove they are better than everyone else. A 'like' for something we do or say or share from a complete stranger has become more powerful than someone in real life 'liking' us for who we actually are.
What this is doing to the human psyche cannot be under estimated. We are currently in a situation where cluster B personality disorders have jumped from around 5% of the population to well over 30% in less than 10 years. Social media/media/political propaganda is literally throwing people onto the psychopathy scale on a delay basis and we are loving every minute of it. This should scare us, but it doesn't. We are all clambering to make that change, more people will like us that way. Buzzzzzzzz!!!
When you cease being empathetic towards others that part of your brain shuts down and it doesn't come back. Is a quick satisfying win over a complete stranger really worth that?
In the not too distant future gender, race, sexuality etc will no longer be an issue because literally more than half of the worlds population will blindly hate everyone simply because they exist.
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Jan 15, 2020 21:28:33 GMT
I’m glad this play has sparked so much fascinating and valuable discussion.
I do wonder what the experience of seeing this play is for ethnic minorities who are not black, and for those who are lighter skinned or “white passing.”
Ditto those with mobility impairments or other disabilities that bar them from participating.
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