7,492 posts
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Post by alece10 on Jun 12, 2019 16:32:19 GMT
The last 2 episodes I found quite disturbing even though I'm loving the series. I really hope it's pure fantasy and not a real vision to the future as only 9 years away.
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861 posts
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Post by karloscar on Jun 12, 2019 19:15:35 GMT
The last 2 episodes I found quite disturbing even though I'm loving the series. I really hope it's pure fantasy and not a real vision to the future as only 9 years away. It all seems pretty plausible to me. 80 days of non-stop rain, and concentration camps for undesirables are only a Boris away!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2019 20:05:13 GMT
Hidden amongst all the character development in the early episodes were things that have become vital to the plot. You have to see it as a whole, not just individual episodes. The future does look bloody depressing. Not sure I'd have opted to have my sight improved when things look that bad! But how inevitable is the chargeable queue jump? I mean technically it exists already in the form of private v NHS, but for the NHS to offer it. God I hope that would never happen.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jun 12, 2019 20:51:04 GMT
I was finding it plot heavy even before this week but there’s so much thrown in there by now that it is just breathless at times. With so many important ideas that deserve their own episode each, I wish that there could be more depth beyond the immediate reactions to things that happen.
I’ve come to the conclusion that this probably isn’t aimed at me. Maybe I am too tuned into what it is being suggested already, so there is little surprise there. If it gets to an audience of people who hadn't really considered the state we are in or that we are heading towards, even changing some minds, then it will have done a good job, I think. Pretty much preaching to the converted here, though.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2019 8:17:17 GMT
I was finding it plot heavy even before this week but there’s so much thrown in there by now that it is just breathless at times. With so many important ideas that deserve their own episode each, I wish that there could be more depth beyond the immediate reactions to things that happen. I’ve come to the conclusion that this probably isn’t aimed at me. Maybe I am too tuned into what it is being suggested already, so there is little surprise there. If it gets to an audience of people who hadn't really considered the state we are in or that we are heading towards, even changing some minds, then it will have done a good job, I think. Pretty much preaching to the converted here, though. I suspect this may be deliberate. As you are well aware, there is so much going on in the world and in people lives right now, the world is spinning so fast with exponential advancements controlling our development and function as a society. I feel like the intention is to overwhelm us with quite plausible situations families could well be presented with in 10-20 years.
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2,955 posts
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Post by crowblack on Jun 13, 2019 8:39:52 GMT
Maybe I am too tuned into what it is being suggested already, so there is little surprise there. But that's why it's so good as an accessible family/character-driven drama - it presents a likeable family that covers all bases and shows them being led down various paths. I'm finding it engaging and enjoyable, whilst something like Black Mirror is a depressing chore.
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Xanderl
Member
Not always very high value in terms of ticket yield or donations
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Post by Xanderl on Jun 13, 2019 8:52:33 GMT
OK given RTD's comments about repurposing the ending of this for Children of Earth, I'm going to throw my theory about how this will end out there ... (spoilers for Children of Earth and speculation for Years and Years) He's referring to the bit with Captain Jack's grandson being sacrificed to end the alien threat. Edith and Bethany will somehow sacrifice themselves to bring down the government. Edith dies (but she would have soon anyway), Bethany lives on in the cloud, Muriel can see her thanks to her magic eyes.
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2,520 posts
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Post by n1david on Jun 13, 2019 9:24:43 GMT
Somehow the news about oil tankers being attacked in the Gulf of Oman feels very like the sort of throwaway news item in the background of Y&Y Episode One. File under “things to which we don’t pay much attention which turn out to be really significant later”.
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2,706 posts
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jun 13, 2019 9:30:02 GMT
Maybe I am too tuned into what it is being suggested already, so there is little surprise there. But that's why it's so good as an accessible family/character-driven drama - it presents a likeable family that covers all bases and shows them being led down various paths. I'm finding it engaging and enjoyable, whilst something like Black Mirror is a depressing chore. I'm not seeing them as likeable, maybe that's an issue. All have various character flaws (even the Tovey character) but they are, deliberately I think, being written as very complacent and culpable, even the supposed radical character. It's that complacency/naivety/self-centredness, leading to the society that they have ended up with that I think is Davies' takeaway message.
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2,955 posts
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Post by crowblack on Jun 13, 2019 10:02:24 GMT
I'm not seeing them as likeable, maybe that's an issue. I think they are - they're well-rounded, believable, recognisable, flawed but not actively nasty, not the sort of knuckledragging skinheads or secretive Russian bots that FBPE hashtaggers seem to think solely lie behind the rise of the likes of Farage or Trump. I suppose I have a different definition of likeability - I mean characters who are engaging. I think, for example, the first three episodes of Year of the Rabbit fall flat for me because the writing and pace don't give the leads the space to make us like or care for them, or feel they have an interior life.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jun 13, 2019 10:42:32 GMT
I'm not seeing them as likeable, maybe that's an issue. I think they are - they're well-rounded, believable, recognisable, flawed but not actively nasty, not the sort of knuckledragging skinheads or secretive Russian bots that FBPE hashtaggers seem to think solely lie behind the rise of the likes of Farage or Trump. I suppose I have a different definition of likeability - I mean characters who are engaging. I think, for example, the first three episodes of Year of the Rabbit fall flat for me because the writing and pace don't give the leads the space to make us like or care for them, or feel they have an interior life. Engaging as characters, yes, also believable, flawed, recognisable and not actively nasty. The lack of time for each reduces them to an outline, though, so I wouldn't go as far as saying that they are well rounded.
As people, however, surely we are supposed to be frustrated by them and their poor choices? Such poor choices that patience would be growing very thin with them very quickly. I'm interested to see how he pulls things together in the last episode (I'm presuming it's a one off, is that known or not?), will it just be a global dumpster fire or will he do a Whovian time trick so we are back before it all went pear shaped?
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Post by crowblack on Jun 13, 2019 11:33:09 GMT
surely we are supposed to be frustrated by them and their poor choices? The characters within the drama are too, though - pretty well every choice made by a family member is disapproved of by others - supporting Rook, becoming a flat earther, risking everything for a boyfriend or your global political activism or your identity crisis, losing money/job/having affair and supporting an increasingly fascist regime etc.
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5,582 posts
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Post by lynette on Jun 13, 2019 15:50:34 GMT
Hidden amongst all the character development in the early episodes were things that have become vital to the plot. You have to see it as a whole, not just individual episodes. The future does look bloody depressing. Not sure I'd have opted to have my sight improved when things look that bad! But how inevitable is the chargeable queue jump? I mean technically it exists already in the form of private v NHS, but for the NHS to offer it. God I hope that would never happen. If this was in because the writer wants some to say something about the NHS, it was pretty crass. So I’m thinking it must have repercussions. The money? Will she need it to get Bethany out of trouble? I’m just wondering if it will all connect up or not. They did make a big point of it.
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Post by partytentdown on Jun 14, 2019 2:36:46 GMT
An interesting thing I noticed about the scene in the first episode which includes very up to date radio news reports. I was watching with subtitles on and they were different... The stories were more generic so the edit to real news must have been very last minute.
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311 posts
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Post by olliebean on Jun 14, 2019 7:06:09 GMT
As I understand it, a genuine news report from that very day was edited in. I remember reading that the newsreader was surprised to hear herself in it!
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861 posts
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Post by karloscar on Jun 14, 2019 9:57:54 GMT
Quite amusing that tomasz schafernacker hasn't aged at all in 2028. Must have a good plastic surgeon.
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2,955 posts
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Post by crowblack on Jun 14, 2019 12:27:42 GMT
digital avatars by then, based on old presenters. Like Swifty Frisco in Halo Jones.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2019 22:17:11 GMT
I watched episodes 1-4 again tonight and now I feel utterly drained (but too hyped to sleep). I couldn't face 5 as well or I'd have been up all night. But god, I really want to burn everything down now. I really hope Bethany and Edith and maybe Celeste rip everything apart tomorrow.
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Post by juicy_but_terribly_drab on Jun 18, 2019 21:04:56 GMT
What did everyone think then? I think this will be a somewhat controversial ending but I for one enjoyed it a lot even if it was more uneven than the previous couple episodes. Thought gran's speech was very true and I thought Edith's one about being love was beautiful (maybe it was cliché but it made me cry so sod it, I loved it!)
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jun 18, 2019 21:11:30 GMT
What did everyone think then? I think this will be a somewhat controversial ending but I for one enjoyed it a lot even if it was more uneven than the previous couple episodes. Thought gran's speech was very true and I thought Edith's one about being love was beautiful (maybe it was cliché but it made me cry so sod it, I loved it!) Loved the ending of it, I wasn’t sold totally up to this episode but I think Davies hit the landing very well. At last someone called them out for being selfish (great speech from Gran), something that was frustrating me, and it all started to work for me. Very moving I thought in the last section.
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3,071 posts
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Post by david on Jun 18, 2019 21:19:57 GMT
What did everyone think then? I think this will be a somewhat controversial ending but I for one enjoyed it a lot even if it was more uneven than the previous couple episodes. Thought gran's speech was very true and I thought Edith's one about being love was beautiful (maybe it was cliché but it made me cry so sod it, I loved it!) Really enjoyed this final episode and the 2 speeches you’ve mentioned were definite highlights for me.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jun 19, 2019 10:59:58 GMT
For me, the point of the Gran speech wasn't about politics but about personal responsibility. Throughout, the characters had been in their own little hermetically sealed lives not realising that they were the problem. For this family those particular examples used were aimed at their concerns. Another family would have needed a different set of examples to hit home as hard.
The biggest problem with the nation, for me, is that people refuse to see themselves as part of the problem or as part of the solution. Everything is somebody else's fault or somebody else's job. When that happens you get leaders who feel as though they can get away with anything.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jun 19, 2019 13:14:56 GMT
The only solution is actual bloody revolution, and nobody wants that. It's how they happen, though.
Some people think that putting a cross on a piece of paper makes them engaged. It really doesn't, the only way you are properly engaged is by acting on the things that concern you (in a legal manner, of course). If it's climate change, tax policy or whatever, you can't complain if you don't actively get involved.
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Post by Latecomer on Jun 19, 2019 15:59:41 GMT
Well, yes, obviously. Also true. Trouble is, there is nothing much legal that you can do to protest if you are not wealthy or able to form a pressure group with people wealthy enough to take a matter all the way. Little things....this year I have bought the Big Issue. I have bought all my new clothes from charity shops that I support. I have tried to eat more Vegan and vegetarian foods each week. I walk more places instead of getting out the car. I have requested my groceries are delivered without bags and choose green delivery slots. I am using a reusable cup on theatre visits and have bought my own water bottle and use it. I have stuck “Bollocks to Brexit” stickers on Dyson hand driers (this may not strictly be legal but I am prepared to take the chance). I have challenged old friends to think about perhaps supporting a party that likes buses when they complained about their only bus service being cut and another to actually read the Labour 2017 manifesto (they are seriously rich and think Labour are the devil....no problem with that if they have reasons but mostly based on “Corbyn is a Russian spy and wants to steal ALL your money”) I have challenged work colleagues who carelessly say the young are snowflakes or that Veganism is a fad and they don't know why it’s catching on. They may all be small acts but every time we challenge a view or do something it counts!
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jun 19, 2019 18:21:17 GMT
Well, yes, obviously. Also true. Trouble is, there is nothing much legal that you can do to protest if you are not wealthy or able to form a pressure group with people wealthy enough to take a matter all the way. It isn’t so much wealth, but time. People see themselves as being very ‘time poor’. Anyone with time can make a big difference if they know what they are doing.
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Post by Latecomer on Jun 19, 2019 20:15:42 GMT
It's a philosophy, fair enough. To me, all that stuff is just everyday living. I just wouldn't have seen it as change in any particular way. Interesting. You are one of the best theatremonkey.....you help make the country a better place by moderating on here and you’ve sort of made activism (getting a good seat for a fair price) into a job with your website! Never underestimate common decency and the power of queuing....
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Post by partytentdown on Jun 19, 2019 22:13:20 GMT
Has anyone seen/read 'Cloud Atlas'? Very similar ending.
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1,845 posts
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Post by NeilVHughes on Jun 19, 2019 23:51:22 GMT
@theatremonkey sums up my disappointment.
We spend 5 weeks with a normal, if diverse family living through a turbulent decade doing the best to survive who morph into a family of super heroes.
We all have a duty to make the world a better place, each little thing we do can/does make a difference, the difference this family makes almost obliterates this message, they have a particular skill set, contacts and opportunities (I know it is a drama and there is dramatic licence) which can be seen as the continuation of the white knight syndrome.
The one truth to take away from this episode is ‘follow the money’ nobody seems to be investigating how a second rate populist has managed to mobilise and finance all these candidates making them the most popular party in the UK, the US have the Koch brothers who is/are the British equivalent.
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Post by partytentdown on Jun 19, 2019 23:54:26 GMT
Did that Torchwood link turn up in the end?
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Post by lynette on Jun 20, 2019 12:32:09 GMT
'Little things' is interesting as an idea but doesn’t always pan out in the way desired. Remember when we objected to the air miles of those roses from Kenya? So we stopped buying them and put loads of people out of work in Kenya. The beggars up my way all have same blanket and arrive same time, dropped off by the 'owner'. So who gets the money? Vegan food! Well some manufacturers are cashing in here. And again, if we suddenly don’t eat meat? Everything has a consequence and often an unforeseen one. Funny how Ubers were condemned by the black taxi brigade when they operate in areas black cabbies don’t or won’t and when the uber is a lifesaver for old people and teenagers. The shops can easily go over to paper bags and sustain a few forests. Why don’t they? And so on.....I’m not trying to preach or put the clock back but I do think it just isn’t 'simples'.
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