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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2019 7:50:54 GMT
Everything changed as soon as she got divorced and I’m not sure she ever managed to get over it. She was certainly desperately unhappy during RHT when Rocco refused to return home, and at the time I know her legal team asked the court to arrest Guy for kidnapping Rocco. There was certainly something underhand about how that all went down, considering Madonna was on tour and unable to just drop everything to fly to London and sort it herself. She’s also spoke about this over the last few weeks on stage, talking about how Guy give Rocco the money to hire his own legal team, supposedly telling him what lies to tell the court, how he took $100 million in the divorce etc... I don’t think it helped that Guy then went and married a woman 24 years younger than her and had a whole bunch of biological kids. But you know, there’s never a winner when it comes to divorce and you just have to deal with it. Sorry but you're clutching quite badly here. I was a fan for many many years, but the moment she lost me for good (and frankly it was after years of having doubts because of her terrible behaviour) was when she did Grahame Norton and treated the fans who gave her the dolls in such a horrible way and that was while she was still with Guy. Everything you have written is heresy and frankly it's pathetic she is even talking about this stuff in public. She is just a nasty person it's as simple as that. She's always has been, it is nothing new. She treats people like dirt and her relationship with her fans is like Stockholm syndrome. The difference is that as younger fans we used to laugh it off or think YAY what a strong woman, but as adults you just can't ignore it. Yes the woman has made some great music and is a fantastic live performer. But she has always treated her fans with distain no matter what faux niceties she added to her act after going to a couple of Kylie concerts, where she sat texting on her phone the whole show and now has the gaul to take people's phones off them and make them sit waiting for 3-4 hours without them at hers. Graham Norton - with the dolls - was 2012 to promote WE. She divorced Guy in 2008, so no, I don’t think I’m clutching. Married Madonna was a lot tamer (and nicer) than what came before and after, and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that after both of her divorces she pushed the hyper sexual aspect of her work... but that’s for someone more qualified than I to delve into. No, she isn’t very nice to fans. Generally she keeps them at arms length, but in fairness she has rarely interacted with them. The impression I’ve always had is she that is she comfortable with people being fans of the work and not the artist. Yes, she can be frosty, but it sets a tone that keeps her in control. But as I’ve said, there’s no excuses for being late. None at all.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Nov 15, 2019 8:43:40 GMT
A problem she has is that she doesn’t have anywhere to go after the music career. Unless she’s struck by lightning and wakes up a great actor or director I’m afraid pop music and her back catalogue is her lot for the rest of her life. If these residencies are an indication that she’s tired of the huge arena tours (and who could blame her for finding that exhausting at 60) then seriously where does she go next?
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Post by floorshow on Nov 15, 2019 10:49:43 GMT
Does she have to tour? Her overheads must be insane but I don't think she does very well out of her publishing & royalties for the classics and big sellers.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2019 11:36:13 GMT
A problem she has is that she doesn’t have anywhere to go after the music career. Unless she’s struck by lightning and wakes up a great actor or director I’m afraid pop music and her back catalogue is her lot for the rest of her life. If these residencies are an indication that she’s tired of the huge arena tours (and who could blame her for finding that exhausting at 60) then seriously where does she go next? MGM have hired her to direct a movie based on Michaela DePrince, and Madonna has been working on her own adaptation of ‘The Impossible Lives of Greta Wells’ by Andrew Sean Greer. Madonna also had an Instagram meltdown last year about Universal buying a script based on her early career, stating only she can tell her story, and I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s readying herself for this to eventually happen. She has never performed an official greatest hits tour, and never toured without promoting or performing more than half of her latest album. There has been speculation about her announcing a world tour next year celebrating the 30th anniversary of The Immaculate a Collection, but personally I don’t see it, not yet.
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Post by intoanewlife on Nov 15, 2019 17:31:19 GMT
A problem she has is that she doesn’t have anywhere to go after the music career. Unless she’s struck by lightning and wakes up a great actor or director I’m afraid pop music and her back catalogue is her lot for the rest of her life. If these residencies are an indication that she’s tired of the huge arena tours (and who could blame her for finding that exhausting at 60) then seriously where does she go next? She's 60 years old and a billionaire, she could just retire and attempt to enjoy her life. I know that's what I'd do x
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2019 19:41:06 GMT
A problem she has is that she doesn’t have anywhere to go after the music career. Unless she’s struck by lightning and wakes up a great actor or director I’m afraid pop music and her back catalogue is her lot for the rest of her life. If these residencies are an indication that she’s tired of the huge arena tours (and who could blame her for finding that exhausting at 60) then seriously where does she go next? She's 60 years old and a billionaire, she could just retire and attempt to enjoy her life. I know that's what I'd do x She bloody better not.
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Post by danb on Nov 15, 2019 21:30:58 GMT
She's 60 years old and a billionaire, she could just retire and attempt to enjoy her life. I know that's what I'd do x She bloody better not. But what else are you waiting for her to do? Genuinely interested.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2019 23:18:42 GMT
But what else are you waiting for her to do? Genuinely interested. New music. Always new music. She is my favourite artist and I listen to her all the time (my Last FM tells me I’ve recently hit 14,000 plays since January 2018). I’d like to see her reach at least 20 studio albums, but I’m not convinced she will at this point. Madonna has never done an official greatest hits tour, always touring in support of her latest albums and never just for the sake of performing her hits. Something like that would surely be worth the effort and sell hugely. In terms of performing, she’s never headlines a big festival either. Her name keeps popping up for Glastonbury, but I’m not sure she would. She’d never do the legends slot, I know that much. None of her albums have ever been remastered or expanded (excluding dodgy remasters of her first 3 albums back in 2001). Only twice in 37 years has she officially released 2 songs from her vault: the first in 1986 when her scrapped debut single was the b-side to Papa Don’t Preach and then in 2003 when she included an unreleased song from Bedtime Stories on a remix EP. She was signed to the same label from 1982 to 2009 and basically her record deal with them means they only own the music submitted to them (and not unreleased songs) and they are not allowed to release any new bodies of work (eg random greatest hits albums) or existing body of work with alterations (eg expanded versions) without permission. There’s a rumour that she’s in the process of buying her catalogue back under some clause in old record contracts that allows a popstar to buy back their actual recordings after 35 years, so there is possibly something in the works there. She’s said once or twice that she’s kept all of her costumes and outfits from the very start and would like to do a multimedia exhibition, combining video and costume - which I think would work very well as a touring exhibit. I’d also like an autobiography too - something she’s also said she’d like to do eventually. Throw in a movie biop and musical then we can talk retirement.
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Post by danb on Nov 16, 2019 6:24:43 GMT
I know about ‘Ain’t No Big Deal’ but what were the scrapped songs from ‘Bedtime Stories’? Good new music is always appreciated but it’s been slim pickings for so long. She could easily sell out stadiums with a greatest hits tour but it would fly in the face of all she’s done before and her supposed constant reinvention.
Your passion is admirable Kevin. I only drop in and out of her work now and think her last listenable album was MDNA and have found the last two to be a real slog. I think she is trying to be something that there isn’t really an appetite for, whereas she could fund another ten orphanages by brushing the chip off her shoulder and giving the people what they want.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2019 10:49:19 GMT
I know about ‘Ain’t No Big Deal’ but what were the scrapped songs from ‘Bedtime Stories’? Good new music is always appreciated but it’s been slim pickings for so long. She could easily sell out stadiums with a greatest hits tour but it would fly in the face of all she’s done before and her supposed constant reinvention. The Remixed and Revisited EP has a song called ‘Your Honesty’ from the Bedtime Stories sessions. Her manager had announced plans for a huge career retrospective boxset in 2003 to celebrate 20 years since her first album, but her label basically refused to release it because it would have cost too much. So we got an EP instead. I do think the fact she’s never done an official greatest hits tour is deliberate and an attempt to stop herself becoming a legacy act. It’s a bold move to keep focusing primarily on new material, but once you’re seen as a legacy act then that’s all you ever are. Half the reason she left Warner (her label) was because they forced through the release of GHV2 (Greatest Hits Volume 2) before she wanted it released. So what did she do? She refused to shoot cover art, do any promotion or record any new material. I’ve always thought a greatest hits tour would be her final lap, a bookend to her career. But I think after nearly 40 years of refusing to look backwards would offer you some room to do it once or twice without it being a contraction. Your passion is admirable Kevin. I only drop in and out of her work now and think her last listenable album was MDNA and have found the last two to be a real slog. I think she is trying to be something that there isn’t really an appetite for, whereas she could fund another ten orphanages by brushing the chip off her shoulder and giving the people what they want. Most people dropped out after hearing MDNA - most call that one the unlistenable album! She said recently that Hard Candy, MDNA and Rebel Heart were made because she had to make an album: there wasn’t anything that necessarily made her feel inspired to make music. I suppose that’s the curse of selling your soul and having deadlines on your creativity. As much as I want new music constantly, I do think she’s at that legacy act stage and should just embrace it. I’d rather she settle things on her terms, rather than having the opportunity stolen from her (like MJ, Prince, Whitney etc). Still, she just scored her 50th #1 single on the US dance chart - the most #1s by any act on any US chart. Not bad when you’re in your 60s.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2019 10:51:13 GMT
Small update on times - ever since that shambolic 12am start, she has managed to get on stage no later than 11pm ever since (noting the start time is now 10.30pm).
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Post by Jonnyboy on Nov 16, 2019 15:00:11 GMT
What’s she doing in that half hour? A sudoku?
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Post by ptwest on Nov 16, 2019 17:37:56 GMT
Personally, I would love her to do the quintessential greatest hits show, embracing each era of her career and proving why she has been in the business for well over 30 years. Watching Cher the other week, I loved how she basically played the crowd pleasers whilst dressing in the "look" for each era. If Madge could see her way to doing something similar it would be incredible, and go some way to justifying the insane prices that she charges.
Of course the other side of me believes that the Bedtime Stories album has been criminally overlooked in terms of live performance and would love more of that but that wouldn't sell a huge number of tickets!
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Nov 16, 2019 18:29:40 GMT
The Reinvention tour was Greatest Hits by another name wasn’t it?
She thinks she’s still too edgy and too cool to blatantly do a greatest hits tour. She’s neither these days I’m afraid, and evidence of that is her need to collaborate with people who are.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2019 18:50:53 GMT
Personally, I would love her to do the quintessential greatest hits show, embracing each era of her career and proving why she has been in the business for well over 30 years. Watching Cher the other week, I loved how she basically played the crowd pleasers whilst dressing in the "look" for each era. If Madge could see her way to doing something similar it would be incredible, and go some way to justifying the insane prices that she charges. Of course the other side of me believes that the Bedtime Stories album has been criminally overlooked in terms of live performance and would love more of that but that wouldn't sell a huge number of tickets! Can’t see Madonna recreating her looks in stage in the same way Cher does - does anyone but Cher even do that? If Madonna decides she wants to continue down this small venue road, I’d love to see her do something like Kylie’s Anti Tour, and do a show focusing on albums cuts. Bedtime Stories would be perfect in that kind of setting, and a lot of her album tracks do have a dark, theatrical quality to them that would lend themselves quite nicely to such a show. If she does do a greatest hits tour in 2022/23 to tie in with her 40th anniversary, it’ll have been 8 years since her last arena tour, 11 since her last stadium shows in the UK, and 14 since her last greatest hits album. Just call it the ‘Queen of Pop World Tour’, sing the 80s and 90s with a splash of songs from 00s and 10s, make the stage a giant cathedral with disco balls and give us all out Madonna.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2019 19:18:23 GMT
The Reinvention tour was Greatest Hits by another name wasn’t it? She thinks she’s still too edgy and too cool to blatantly do a greatest hits tour. She’s neither these days I’m afraid, and evidence of that is her need to collaborate with people who are. Yes. But unofficially of course. On the one hand American Life had flopped a bit, US radio had blacklisted her for speaking about about the Iraq war and the world thought she was a bit weird because of the whole Kabbalah and childrens books thing. But on the other, she performed over half of the songs from American Life, sung hits that she hadn’t performed in over a decade (some twenty years) and doubled her ticket price from her previous tour 3 years earlier (£75 up to £150 I believe). More than anything it was damage control and a way to re-engage her audience. 2003 spooked the life out of her. She’d had media storms before when she released the SEX book etc, but that was to be expected. But a backlash for speaking out about war, not releasing a dance album and talking about her faith? It caught her off guard. It took Re-invention Tour, Live 8, falling off her horse and Hung Up to get things back on track. But her career never recovered in the US because radio refused to play her, and as a result she’s only had 3 US top 10 singles this side of 2002.
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Post by ptwest on Nov 16, 2019 20:40:36 GMT
If Madonna decides she wants to continue down this small venue road, I’d love to see her do something like Kylie’s Anti Tour, and do a show focusing on albums cuts. Bedtime Stories would be perfect in that kind of setting, and a lot of her album tracks do have a dark, theatrical quality to them that would lend themselves quite nicely to such a show. If she does do a greatest hits tour in 2022/23 to tie in with her 40th anniversary, it’ll have been 8 years since her last arena tour, 11 since her last stadium shows in the UK, and 14 since her last greatest hits album. Just call it the ‘Queen of Pop World Tour’, sing the 80s and 90s with a splash of songs from 00s and 10s, make the stage a giant cathedral with disco balls and give us all out Madonna. Both these would be fantastic! I agree with the album tracks, my favourites off the past few have generally not been the tracks chosen as singles. Cherrypick the best 2/3 from Hard Candy, MDNA and Rebel Heart and you would have some great albums, just too much filler on each one.
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Post by craig on Nov 17, 2019 2:58:08 GMT
The other problem with Madonna now is that she has not looked after her voice. She was never a gifted vocalist but she did what she could with her voice.
She clearly does not do regular vocal training and she sounds awful as a result these days. It’s one of the other things that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Minimum effort from her but maximum prices for the shows. The only thing she makes an effort with is her fitness. Do her live shows still look like aerobics classes?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2019 14:22:27 GMT
The only thing she makes an effort with is her fitness. Do her live shows still look like aerobics classes? She used to work out 3 hours a day until around 2017 when she found she no longer had the time after adopting twins. Personally I think a change in fitness is the biggest contributing factor to a change in her vocals (though hitting her 60s couldn’t have helped).
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Post by dazzerlump on Nov 18, 2019 8:57:40 GMT
Does anyone know that if they are now changing the start times, would you be able to get a refund for the London shows? There will be no way I could get home after the show!
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Post by clair on Nov 18, 2019 9:10:05 GMT
Ticketmaster still has the time as 8.30 so I would doubt they'll offer refunds unless/until they have to change the time officially - I have a couple of friends wondering exactly the same thing which is why we checked what the official time in the UK is stating
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Nov 18, 2019 14:00:02 GMT
But if the start time is shown as 8.30 and she doesn’t show up until 10.30 or 11.00 meaning that people have to leave before the end, surely that should qualify for a refund. She’s making it impossible for people to consume what they’ve purchased.
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Xanderl
Member
Not always very high value in terms of ticket yield or donations
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Post by Xanderl on Nov 18, 2019 14:58:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2019 19:11:21 GMT
Her website specifically states:
Which makes me think/hope it’ll be fine in London or at worst changed to 9.30pm for a midnight finish.
If it does get changed here, I’ll be going to see Come From Away up the road beforehand!
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Post by ptwest on Nov 18, 2019 21:56:33 GMT
I would anticipate 9:30 to 9:45. She’s not usually as late in London as in the US.
But I’m not saying this is a good thing - 8:30 is the dream!
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Post by intoanewlife on Nov 19, 2019 1:46:16 GMT
I would anticipate 9:30 to 9:45. She’s not usually as late in London as in the US. But I’m not saying this is a good thing - 8:30 is the dream! The only reason she wasn't late for Rebel Heart in London is because she'd been fined 135,000 quid for being late at Wembley and the O2 is just as hard to get home from. She's playing in Central London with night buses everywhere this time, so anyone hoping she'll be on time is just kidding themselves...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 7:32:04 GMT
She was on time for MDNA Tour in Hyde Park, which was also central London. I think we’ll be fine - Londoners won’t hold back if she’s massively late.
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Post by ukpuppetboy on Nov 19, 2019 7:49:53 GMT
This has nothing to do with Londoners “not holding back”. If the venue has a curfew (as is the case with Hyde Park) and the local authority/crew/management the resolve to pull the plug then she doesn’t have the luxury of her diva antics afforded to her in the US.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 8:59:22 GMT
This has nothing to do with Londoners “not holding back”. If the venue has a curfew (as is the case with Hyde Park) and the local authority/crew/management the resolve to pull the plug then she doesn’t have the luxury of her diva antics afforded to her in the US. Well it kind of does. A fine is one thing, turning the electricity off is another. As far as I’m aware both things only ever happened to her in the UK, and she’s at the stage where money doesn’t matter (divorce settlements aside) - when they turned the electric off she still continued doing the show. My understanding is that the Palladium will not have a curfew in place. But my point is that in the US there has been zero audience backlash over the start times outside of the 12am start in Vegas... and after that she’s reigned it in. Personally I can’t see a London audience holding back and will let her know it’s not okay. Despite her late starts in the US her reviews have all been glowing. London reviewers will curse her if she’s late, no matter how good the show is. Press matters to Madge. But I’ve got faith. She started on time in London on her last tour, re-introduced songs she had cut and then added a few extras in that were not part of the setlist. So we shall see.
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Xanderl
Member
Not always very high value in terms of ticket yield or donations
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Post by Xanderl on Nov 19, 2019 9:53:23 GMT
Would be interesting to know the terms of the Palladium's entertainment license as that presumably defines the hours they are allowed to operate on different days of the week.
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