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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 21:50:35 GMT
It will appeal to people that like good/innovative theatre. Yes absolutely! I hope it comes over as I would love the chance to see it. But a musical adaptation of War and Peace might be a hard sell to your average West End audience member I think we can't blame West End audiences for not seeing these types of shows until we give them a chance to see it. As I argued in another thread, the last time a risky American show was given a West End house was Spring Awakening 8 years ago. It's about time we try again.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 21:51:30 GMT
Well duh. I'm not so insane that I think just because I don't like something, it's not or shouldn't be successful. Thriller Live is also selling well. Yet it's still selling fine in NYC. In that case I don't understand your point as I was responding to you stating that you thought it wouldn't sell as you don't know who it would appeal to.
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Post by mrbarnaby on May 31, 2017 21:55:01 GMT
My point is-
It sells well in NYC because Groban is a big star there. When he's off, the queue for refunds is insane. It's sales will plummet when he leaves He most likely won't be doing it in London .
In NYC it feels bold and new, but we have more original and challenging theatre here, so it won't be as big a deal I suspect.
Time will tell.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 21:56:32 GMT
Oh I think it would need a star here too, but I suspect they have one if they've already got a house.
And I disagree about the theatre here being more original and exciting, certainly not the case for musicals.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 22:07:35 GMT
Don't believe me but I'll let you apologise when Comet gets announced any day now. Likewise Tina at the Aldwych. Likewise Strictly Ballroom at the Phoenix. You're welcome. mrbarnaby please let the Strictly Ballroom rumour be true, that would make me very happy!
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Post by Raven on Jun 1, 2017 17:11:41 GMT
I would love to have this come over. I can't stop listening to the cast recording! So much that. I really wasn't expecting to like it but some of the songs are so well crafted I didn't know what to expect but was pleasantly surprised. Some of the songs, as you say, are so well done! I love "For Forever", "Waving Through A Window", "Requiem" and obviously "You Will Be Found". They are constantly on repeat for me right now.
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Post by mrbarnaby on Jun 1, 2017 20:38:21 GMT
It very much is true.. mrbarnaby please let the Strictly Ballroom rumour be true, that would make me very happy!
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Post by Rory on Jun 1, 2017 22:44:16 GMT
Ok I'm not going to reveal anything else ever again! Oh no, please don't do that mrbarnaby! I always enjoy reading your posts!
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Post by poster J on Jun 1, 2017 23:10:03 GMT
Ok I'm not going to reveal anything else ever again! And it's not about respecting (or not) their jobs. I'd never say something on here that I was specifically told was to be kept secret. Can you not understand that people aren't going to take your word as gospel without an official source to back it up? I entirely understand why you can't reveal sources and I'm not asking you to, but I don't know you from Adam so I equally won't completely believe you (or anyone else who posts any unconfirmed information on this board for that matter) until it's fully confirmed - until then I consider that sort of information interesting insight but don't pin my hopes on it definitely being true. Not sure why you're so offended at that - it's only logical not to take something as 100% confirmed until it is officially announced!
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Post by mrbarnaby on Jun 2, 2017 6:32:06 GMT
I hear what you say but I don't think I've ever bandied 'gossip'/ news around on here and then it not happen... anyway you'll all see when these shows are announced. Ok I'm not going to reveal anything else ever again! And it's not about respecting (or not) their jobs. I'd never say something on here that I was specifically told was to be kept secret. Can you not understand that people aren't going to take your word as gospel without an official source to back it up? I entirely understand why you can't reveal sources and I'm not asking you to, but I don't know you from Adam so I equally won't completely believe you (or anyone else who posts any unconfirmed information on this board for that matter) until it's fully confirmed - until then I consider that sort of information interesting insight but don't pin my hopes on it definitely being true. Not sure why you're so offended at that - it's only logical not to take something as 100% confirmed until it is officially announced!
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Post by 49thand8th on Jun 2, 2017 15:38:36 GMT
Why do you keep replying above the quoted post?
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Post by mrbarnaby on Jun 2, 2017 22:01:00 GMT
Because I have so much to say ! Why do you keep replying above the quoted post? Oops
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Post by danielwhit on Jun 10, 2017 11:11:28 GMT
Back on topic - this would be a worthy addition to the London scene. However, it reminds me of Next to Normal for so many reasons, and therefore I doubt it ever will make it over here in the original production.
The positive it is definitely can be performed in a black box type environment, and therefore can easily find itself running in one of the smaller houses without problems. The emotional impact of the show comes from the music and performances, not complex staging.
Fingers crossed..
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Post by Mark on Jun 12, 2017 12:16:07 GMT
6 Tony Awards.... Most Best Musical winners have made the transfer. Really hoping we get this one.
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Post by welsh_tenor on Jun 12, 2017 12:59:32 GMT
I asked the question before about Ben Platt coming over with this, but given the Tony success surely if this comes over he could come for a 6 month stint?!
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Post by avenueqresident on Jun 12, 2017 13:07:47 GMT
I reckon Cameron Mackintosh has already sealed the deal, he sure loves to get those Broadway sellouts secured, following Hamilton's transfer.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 13:28:22 GMT
I asked the question before about Ben Platt coming over with this, but given the Tony success surely if this comes over he could come for a 6 month stint?! He's been doing it for years what with the Arena Stage and Second Stage productions. If you read the NYT profile on him, he doesn't have a social life, barely speaks outside of the show etc. Even at the Tonys when he'd been out of the show on vocal rest, he sounded run down. I really think once November comes that will be it for him in this role.
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Post by poster J on Jun 12, 2017 13:34:23 GMT
I asked the question before about Ben Platt coming over with this, but given the Tony success surely if this comes over he could come for a 6 month stint?! Surely it would be a better career move for him to stay in New York and try to take advantage of his newly-acquired Tony Award-winner title?
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Post by ali973 on Jun 12, 2017 13:45:24 GMT
People here LOVE to use "surely". No, not surely. Nothing is definite in the business we call show.
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Post by singularsensation10 on Jun 12, 2017 14:19:28 GMT
Saw the show Saturday matinee in NYC and Ben was out on vocal rest - having seen the show without Ben, I am a firm believer that with the right casting this show will do well in London even without Ben. It's not an easy sing and there certainly isn't any leads in London at the moment I can think of that could sing or act it - it needs someone phenomenal, a recent grad maybe, who can be discovered and propelled to stardom. No need for a TV show though!!!
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Post by singularsensation10 on Jun 12, 2017 14:20:56 GMT
Saw the show Saturday matinee in NYC and Ben was out on vocal rest - having seen the show without Ben, I am a firm believer that with the right casting this show will do well in London even without Ben. It's not an easy sing and there certainly isn't any leads in London at the moment I can think of that could sing or act it - it needs someone phenomenal, a recent grad maybe, who can be discovered and propelled to stardom. No need for a TV show though!!!
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Post by poster J on Jun 12, 2017 14:38:05 GMT
People here LOVE to use "surely". No, not surely. Nothing is definite in the business we call show. Considering I phrased my post as a question rather than any kind of statement of fact I think your pedantry in respect of my choice of words is a little unwarranted! I get the point though and I agree, my point really was I don't think it makes much sense at all for him to come over here when the label "Tony-winner" is more meaningful on the other side of the pond.
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Post by ali973 on Jun 12, 2017 14:39:15 GMT
You know what..I still don't see it in London. What was the latest London transfer from Broadway? Hamilton is one, and Hamilton has a whole LOT more cross over appeal to the masses than EH. Also, from an operational perspective, it'll be quite sometime before it lands here. Hamilton has already launched a permanent sit-down in Chicago AND a national tour in the US before it even opened in London. They've already announced a tour of Evan Hansen, so I'm sure they'll only talk about international productions much later after they've finalized their work on the domestic market first.
Having said that, I still don't think it'll come. With exception to everyone on this board, I don't think the British public is into a show like this, and neither will the tourists.
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Post by danielwhit on Jun 13, 2017 15:19:58 GMT
But why is Hamilton a runaway success with a massive hype machine around it? it's a hip-hop musical about politics in the late 18th Century. On paper it doesn't sound like it should be a success at all - so I'm not sure why you say it has a lot more cross over appeal to the masses than DEH.
Dear Evan Hansen deals with hard-hitting, accessible and important subjects. It raises issues which would speak to a lot of people here. It's the type of show which would develop an extremely passionate fan base if it does make its way over the pond.
I agree it is probably unlikely, however I don't think it can be dismissed due to lack of potential appeal. If it made it on Broadway, it can make it here.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2017 15:40:37 GMT
But why is Hamilton a runaway success with a massive hype machine around it? it's a hip-hop musical about politics in the late 18th Century. On paper it doesn't sound like it should be a success at all - so I'm not sure why you say it has a lot more cross over appeal to the masses than DEH. Dear Evan Hansen deals with hard-hitting, accessible and important subjects. It raises issues which would speak to a lot of people here. It's the type of show which would develop an extremely passionate fan base if it does make its way over the pond. I agree it is probably unlikely, however I don't think it can be dismissed due to lack of potential appeal. If it made it on Broadway, it can make it here. I agree. DEH has the potential to fill the void that Curious Incident will leave having closed. Its a similar demographic and touches similar subject matter, with the biggest difference being the story being rooted in US vs UK.
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Post by ali973 on Jun 13, 2017 15:45:02 GMT
But why is Hamilton a runaway success with a massive hype machine around it? it's a hip-hop musical about politics in the late 18th Century. On paper it doesn't sound like it should be a success at all - so I'm not sure why you say it has a lot more cross over appeal to the masses than DEH. Dear Evan Hansen deals with hard-hitting, accessible and important subjects. It raises issues which would speak to a lot of people here. It's the type of show which would develop an extremely passionate fan base if it does make its way over the pond. I agree it is probably unlikely, however I don't think it can be dismissed due to lack of potential appeal. If it made it on Broadway, it can make it here. Hamilton is a smash hit because it's a lot more inclusive, groundbreaking and subversive. Hamilton has massive appeal because minority Americans who have never found themselves as part of the country's history outside of oppression, can finally make a connection to that part of history. Immigration is a 'UGE topic these days- and one of the core themes of Hamilton is immigrants and their stories. The fact that it is a hip-hop/rap musical makes it a lot more appealing, simply due to the unusual mixing of genres and also because the characters in this show are white (but played by black/brown/Asian) and happen to rap. There's great novelty to it. Due to its style and race politics, it speaking of monirity Americans, it brought in a slice of society and public that would never be into musicals. None of these elements will contribute to its overseas success necessarily, but its overseas success will depend on the great publicity and reputation it has already earned for itself. Dear Evan Hansen speaks to a very specific audience I think. There are only eight characters in the show, all of them happen to be suburbanites, middle-class and white (with exception to Alana, who was always white in previous versions but I guess it dawned on them that they are exposing themselves to criticism..and so she's a black girl in the Broadway version). In this age of inclusivity and diversity, DEH is yet another story about white teenage angst in the age of social media. I'm not underestimating the harsh reality of mental illness and isolation, but there are children who are in ACTUAL danger and under threat, whereas Evan's harsh reality is created by himself. If you look at the profile of the cult fan following its starting to develop..white teenage kids and their folks. Hamilton's outreach to young people is by far more powerful, as they try to engage kids from inner city schools who would not even think of seeing a show like this, let alone see bodies and faces similar to theirs act in a massive spectacle. On a technical side, there's a lot more to say about the innovation in staging in Hamilton, the genius-level writing, superior direction and choreography, lighting, staging and everything that has more artistic merit in every imaginable way over DEH. It's really down to what the market wants. DEH will continue doing well, but it hasn't got any mass appeal (really, I doubt anyone outside of New York or anyone who isn't into musicals/theatre knows what it is..Hamilton on the other hand..). Also, if you recall there was a much better show a few years ago called Next to Normal, which is more or less on the same wavelength of DEH, but better.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2017 16:56:12 GMT
BRAVO ali973. Couldn't have said it better myself.
As I said in the Tonys thread, Dear Evan Hansen is no Hamilton in terms of quality or even of hype. The ratings were down 31% this year with no Hamilton involved. Broadway shows like Hamilton that impact public consciousness very, very quickly come along every 20 years not every year. I'd say Oklahoma -> A Chorus Line -> Rent -> Hamilton.
As I've mentioned before, I really think Ben Platt is 90% of the reason behind any hype in NYC. I stood in the box office for around 20 minutes and multiple groups of people enquired about non-premium tickets but left without purchasing when they discovered there were none before November, when Ben is presumed to be leaving. With Hamilton, even when Lin was in it people were aware that the show was the star. I don't think that's the case here and I think grosses will drop dramatically once he has left, particularly as there will be new shows to focus on by then. So unless they could get Ben to come over, which as I said earlier I sincerely doubt he would, I don't see it being a huge success here at all.
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Post by danb on Jun 13, 2017 17:19:27 GMT
...and as others have mentioned before, all that needs to happen is for it to find it's own 'Charlie Stemp' or equivalent wonder boy. I'm thinking akin to the buzz Michael Ball created in 'Aspects'.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2017 17:20:55 GMT
...and as others have mentioned before, all that needs to happen is for it to find it's own 'Charlie Stemp' or equivalent wonder boy. I'm thinking akin to the buzz Michael Ball created in 'Aspects'. Charlie Stemp is great but his raves/hype were nowhere near Ben Platt's and I can't remember the last time a young British musical theatre performer did get such acclaim. Anyone? Cynthia Erivo didn't even get the hype she did in NYC when she was in London, which is why she's staying over there where she's seeing far more success and opportunities. We just don't seem to prop up our young performers in the same way.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2017 19:16:42 GMT
I can see Dear Evan Hansen working over here, but I think they might need to slightly modify some of the script to make it a bit more "British". The plot itself is quite convoluted and bizarre, but its themes are pretty universal, teenage mental health and the sense of belonging and home. Sure, it's not the most groundbreaking piece of work to have explored mental health issues, that would have to be vastly superior Next to Normal, and it won't change the world in the way Rent or Hamilton did, but it does what it says on the tin, and it does that very well.
It's tough I think because we're seeing a (much needed) emergence of shows that really brake the mould in the last couple of years. Hamilton flipped everything we thought we knew about theatre on its head, creating - as has been said - an interesting look at one of the most tedious parts of American history, with a diverse cast, making Broadway and its offshoots feel more accessible to the masses. In the same season, we had Spring Awakening, which admittedly got far less recognition, but put actors with disabilities at the forefront of a previously established story and received almost universal critical acclaim for doing so, albeit on a smaller scale. This year we've had Natasha, Pierre and The Great Comet of 1812 which I don't know all that much about but really seems to be quite innovative and has got a lot of people talking.
This makes it tough for your "traditional" shows (sorry, I cringed even as I used that word) to get the same appreciation that they would have got a few years ago. Dear Evan Hansen isn't anything we haven't seen 45 times already on Broadway or in the West End, which I think also makes people less in favour of it as they can't see the Hamilton, Rent or Great Comet factor. What it is though, is a very tight and well executed combination of what we've seen before. Pasek and Paul's score is generic but catchy, and certainly their strongest creation to date. The set and costume design is relatively simplistic but effective in enhancing the telling of a poignant if slightly strange story. I agree there is a lack of diversity in the casting, this being all the more noticeable the year after the most diverse Tony Awards of all time but there's no reason this couldn't be rectified in future productions with a POC Evan and Heidi or something like that. The fact that the show consists of two families means you'd probably always have to coordinate so that each family consisted of people of the same ethnicity, or perhaps not even, it might just be me that wishes when Eva Noblezada is Eponine they didn't have a white Thenardier and Madame Thenardier.
It's easy to dismiss this show as a "white boy teen angst story" but is a great example of something we've seen a lot of times before inherently a bad thing? I'm sure someone is waiting in the wings to jump in with a "ha, that's privilege for you, being able to celebrate THE EXACT SAME STORY HAPPENING LOTS OF TIMES, other people are battling for just one story that represents them" which is fair enough and you're probably right, but it doesn't negate the fact that Dear Evan Hansen is still a great piece of fiction. If we'd given up on Wizard of Oz based stories after the first few, we might not have had The Wiz, or Wicked so don't let this be your reason for disliking the show.
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