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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 20, 2018 1:01:02 GMT
Certainly what I hear from one of the leading non-London drama schools very much backs up kathryn's last point. All of the BAME actors got agents very, very quickly. Not one of the white actors on the course did - at least not in the period immediately following their final showcase. This included those of the cohort who had won numerous awards and prizes during their course. Some of the non-BAME students have finally secured representation - but far from all. Clearly agents will only take on clients they believe for whom they can find work. But there is something wrong when the top male and female of the year didn't rapidly secure an agent. Talent should be what matters. That is certainly not reflected in London drama schools and is highly, highly unusual. And I'm saying that as someone whose job is directly involved in casting, has access to Spotlight, works with the major agencies and is thus familiar with their books and new signees, and is invited to all the drama school graduation showcases. The idea that all those uppity BAME actors are merrily scooping up all the agents and jobs simply for ticking a diversity box while the obviously more talented white actors languish because of evil anti-white racism is not based on evidence or any kind of reality. In the real world I know a far higher percentage of non-white actors who are unrepresented and/or unemployed than white actors. It might be highly, highly unusual - but it is what has happened this year with this particular cohort. I made no claim about anti-white racism. I simply reported what has happened with this particular group. The tutors found it hard to explain the pattern of agent recruitment for this year - so it clearly was an unusual outcome. Are there too many actors leaving drama school? Yes. Will all new graduates secure an agent? No. Is what happened with this group a one-off or part of a trend? Who knows at this stage.
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Aug 20, 2018 1:47:05 GMT
I'm jetlagged so why not while away the nighttime hours crunching some numbers.
27 students graduated from RADA's acting course this summer. 15 women, 12 men. Only student one is black, a man. Four of the woman are non-white (either biracial or of Arabic/Middle Eastern descent) but all are light-skinned.
Out of these 27, 16 found agents and 11 didn't.
9 out of the 11 white men found representation. The sole black male actor found representation. 6 out of the 11 white women found representation. Half the non-white women found representation.
These stats do not indicate any trends along racial lines. The only trend that I can see is that women, making up the majority of students, are less likely to find an agent.
I checked the class of 2017 and out of 24 students, five were black and two Asian. Only three actors from the class of 2017 are currently unrepresented, two white men and one white woman.
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Post by kathryn on Aug 20, 2018 7:44:08 GMT
The demographics of BAME actors in the pool are almost certainly going to be lumpy across age ranges.
Everyone is super-keen to cast BAME actors now, but we know that hasn’t been the case in the last 10 years - which have also seen economic changes that made surviving as an aspiring actor more difficult, and meant that those from middle-class backgrounds with financial help were more likely to succeed than those from working class backgrounds. That is almost certainly going to mean that there are age-brackets with fewer BAME actors who have managed to keep working - and accrue experience and profile - than their white peers.
There’s going to be a pipeline issue.
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Post by lynette on Aug 20, 2018 12:27:30 GMT
I'm jetlagged so why not while away the nighttime hours crunching some numbers. 27 students graduated from RADA's acting course this summer. 15 women, 12 men. Only student one is black, a man. Four of the woman are non-white (either biracial or of Arabic/Middle Eastern descent) but all are light-skinned. Out of these 27, 16 found agents and 11 didn't. 9 out of the 11 white men found representation. The sole black male actor found representation. 6 out of the 11 white women found representation. Half the non-white women found representation. These stats do not indicate any trends along racial lines. The only trend that I can see is that women, making up the majority of students, are less likely to find an agent. I checked the class of 2017 and out of 24 students, five were black and two Asian. Only three actors from the class of 2017 are currently unrepresented, two white men and one white woman. Gosh! This is like one of those IQ 11+ tests. I think it just means that students from RADA which is after all the internationally acclaimed acting school get agents. Most of them. Wouldn’t you expect that? If you can find the number of entry acceptances, then we're talking. How many apply from a more diverse group? How many are accepted?
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Post by Snciole on Aug 20, 2018 13:46:52 GMT
I wasn't as furious about Pressure being all-white compared to Knights of the Rose. On one hand; it is all make-believe and acting. There could be and were people of colour in Britain at that time. Would I, as a BME, found it believable that they would have been working in High Command. Probably not but I was furious about Knights of the Rose, unlike Lehman and Pressure these were not true stories based on real people, there could have been BAME cast members (especially as it tried and failed to give off Game of Thrones vibes).
However, Queen Anne had a multiracial cast, which I loved. John Churchill was black, Sarah Churchill was white so their son was cast as mixed race. Maybe it was contrived but I thought it was really refreshing to do a period drama that didn't make people feel excluded (even if some ladies joked that Orange is the New Black as William IV was played by a black actor!)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2018 13:58:29 GMT
Certainly what I hear from one of the leading non-London drama schools very much backs up kathryn's last point. All of the BAME actors got agents very, very quickly. Not one of the white actors on the course did - at least not in the period immediately following their final showcase. This included those of the cohort who had won numerous awards and prizes during their course. Some of the non-BAME students have finally secured representation - but far from all. Clearly agents will only take on clients they believe for whom they can find work. But there is something wrong when the top male and female of the year didn't rapidly secure an agent. Talent should be what matters. What the students probably didn’t tell you is that the BAME students are a small minority which of course means they end up being snapped up. The number of trained white actors still far outnumbers that of black actors. The important thing to remember is that the black students did not take a place on the agents’ books that could have gone to a white actor - they were snapped up by agents who probably had a deficit of black actors. Most agents would not have more than two actors of colour of each different type (older, younger, male, female etc).
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Post by profquatermass on Aug 20, 2018 16:35:39 GMT
I do appreciate this, xanderl. But come on, the people in Pressure were white men and the people in Lehman were Jewish white men. You are suggesting we do a Hamilton for every show, every play? Actually a lot of the characters in the Lehman Trilogy were women. Being played by men. Or children. Being played by adult men. And had a non-white actor been cast, the issue of whether the Lehman fortune was based on slavery might have been addressed.
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Post by lynette on Aug 20, 2018 18:08:28 GMT
Many people"s fortunes were based on slavery. And it wasn’t avoided in the play. It was obviously there. Casting a black actor as a Lehman brother would have confused the actual story of particular immigrants and how they dealt with their particular situation. I think black actors would be insulted to be cast simply to be the token nod to black issues. In Emilia at the Globe they cast black actors as Emilia. Ok. No prob. But actually if she was anything 'different' she was Jewish. Casting black actors makes the point very visually but casting black actors for clunky political preaching isn’t going to help Theatre, black actors or anybody.
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Post by profquatermass on Aug 20, 2018 20:55:28 GMT
Many people"s fortunes were based on slavery. And it wasn’t avoided in the play. It was obviously there. Casting a black actor as a Lehman brother would have confused the actual story of particular immigrants and how they dealt with their particular situation. I think black actors would be insulted to be cast simply to be the token nod to black issues. In Emilia at the Globe they cast black actors as Emilia. Ok. No prob. But actually if she was anything 'different' she was Jewish. Casting black actors makes the point very visually but casting black actors for clunky political preaching isn’t going to help Theatre, black actors or anybody. Really? You think that audiences aren't sophisticated enough to understand that a black actor is playing a slave in this scene and a Jewish cotton merchant in the next scene? How would that have confused the issue? Hopefully few of us want to go back to the days when black actors could only be cast as characters who the writer envisaged as non-white. But I really don't think that featuring the people who created the source of the Brothers' fortune would necessitate clumsy political preaching
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Post by sf on Aug 21, 2018 21:02:37 GMT
Casting a black actor as a Lehman brother would have confused the actual story of particular immigrants and how they dealt with their particular situation. Why?
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Post by profquatermass on Aug 22, 2018 9:12:29 GMT
Casting a black actor as a Lehman brother would have confused the actual story of particular immigrants and how they dealt with their particular situation. Why? I wondered that too. Surely the audience is sopisticated enough to understand that in this scene Adrian Lester is playing a Jewish Lehman brother and in the next scene he is playing one of their slaves? After all, we all accepted that Adam Godley was sometimes a Brother and sometimes a Wife Meanwhile, on another note, I am thrilled to see that diverse casting is finally reaching the cinema with this new film of David Copperfield starring Dev Patel, Benedict Wong and Peter Capaldi www.theguardian.com/film/2018/aug/17/why-dev-patel-in-dickens-could-change-film-for-ever
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