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Post by talkingheads on Jun 16, 2018 17:05:15 GMT
I had no idea this place existed. Is it right that, with notice, you can watch recordings of shows? I stumbled upon it as I was researching if there were any stage performances of Paul Scofield commercially released. Has anybody here gone and watched any of the recordings? Or is it a purely academic place?
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Post by kathryn on Jun 16, 2018 17:31:26 GMT
At the V&A? Yes, I’ve been. The slots books up quickly so it’s best to book a month or so in advance.
No need for anything except proof of ID to register and pick up your reader card - anyone can use it.
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Post by anthony40 on Jun 16, 2018 17:39:29 GMT
I too have been to the V & A once for a screening.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2018 18:08:07 GMT
As with the others, anyone can go there. You need to book, but it's a simple process, and the staff there have always been helpful and kind.
Similarly for the NT archive anyone is welcome to watch there.
Unlike the NYPL archive where you basically have to promise them your first born and to never reveal what was found within.
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Post by talkingheads on Jun 16, 2018 18:16:52 GMT
As with the others, anyone can go there. You need to book, but it's a simple process, and the staff there have always been helpful and kind. Similarly for the NT archive anyone is welcome to watch there. Unlike the NYPL archive where you basically have to promise them your first born and to never reveal what was found within. This is a revelation to me. Then again it took me until two months ago to realise you could just walk into the NT and look round the shop, I don't live in London. Would anyone recommend any great performances captured therein? So many plays I've wanted to see and now there's the posibility of seeing some of the best actors in them!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2018 18:20:34 GMT
As with the others, anyone can go there. You need to book, but it's a simple process, and the staff there have always been helpful and kind. Similarly for the NT archive anyone is welcome to watch there. Unlike the NYPL archive where you basically have to promise them your first born and to never reveal what was found within. This is a revelation to me. Then again it took me until two months ago to realise you could just walk into the NT and look round the shop, I don't live in London. Would anyone recommend any great performances captured therein? So many plays I've wanted to see and now there's the posibility of seeing some of the best actors in them! Oh where to start! The NT have a lot of stuff dating from the mid-late 90s and then fully from the mid 2000s. Obviously everything that has been NT Live'd is also there as well. There's also a pelthora of platforms (some audio and some visual) I would recommend searching their catalogue for a show you remember being there and seeing what they have. I once got very distracted while doing some research on physical materials (scripts and whatnot) because someone was watching the Barrowman Anything Goes in my eyeline and frankly that looked far more fun. Loads more information here: www.nationaltheatre.org.uk/about-the-national-theatre/archiveIt's down next door to the Old Vic, rather than the main building.
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Post by kathryn on Jun 16, 2018 18:59:30 GMT
Hmm, I’ve got time off in August and no holiday plans - maybe I’ll finally get down to the archives for the Simon Russell Beale Hamlet. Or that production of His Dark Materials everyone raves about. Or even the Barrowman Anything Goes, actually, I missed that and it does sound like fun.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2018 19:34:50 GMT
Ooh the infamous War Horse hating PhD supervisor did work on His Dark Materials and I think that was the only play she’s seen in years (spoiler she didn’t much like the theatre of it...)
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Post by anthony40 on Jun 16, 2018 19:49:58 GMT
I saw a filmed production of the Almeida's American Pyscho with Matt Smith
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Post by peggs on Jun 16, 2018 23:22:58 GMT
Hmm, I’ve got time off in August and no holiday plans - maybe I’ll finally get down to the archives for the Simon Russell Beale Hamlet. Or that production of His Dark Materials everyone raves about. Or even the Barrowman Anything Goes, actually, I missed that and it does sound like fun. The nt archives of srb's hamlet is sadly not great filming, if you go back pre nt live they have filmed from back on auditorium and it's not very much in focus, so more radio play, just to warn you. Never quite sure why when even quite recently their recordings are poor as surely limits their use, money I guess. That said I recommend the place, all the custume, staging info rtf is very interesting. The blood meeting minutes I read there are still the best minutes I've ever read 😁. Not yet made it to v and a one, need to work out where it is as it's not st the museum is it?
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Post by kathryn on Jun 17, 2018 7:51:43 GMT
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Post by peggs on Jun 17, 2018 8:32:55 GMT
Is it relatively simple to find, I'd got as far as deciding to go before realising it was an area of London I didn't know at all and wimping out.
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Post by talkingheads on Jun 17, 2018 8:52:09 GMT
Well I've enquired about going to watch Elmina's Kitchen, I appreciate the recordings might not be top quality and recorded from the back of the room, but it's better than nothing! Is it true that they recorded every production from the mid eighties onwards? If so, I'm going to be there a lot!
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Post by crowblack on Jun 17, 2018 9:33:40 GMT
I don't live in London but if I had the time I'd certainly investigate these! Some of the production/rehearsal stills photographers also put their photos online on their own websites, which are well worth looking up - they generally have far more images than on the theatre's own website, in some cases hundreds, and superb quality as many are taken up close, onstage. You can also find short performance or production clips and interviews on theatres' Facebook or Instagram sites - there's an interactive 360 degree rehearsal room clip of Mosquitoes on the NT's Facebook which on some browsers allows you to swipe around the room to follow the action. I presume it must be filmed from some sort of centrally positioned 360 camera placed in the middle of the room. It would be fabulous if performances could be captured on stage in this way.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jun 17, 2018 19:07:02 GMT
Interesting mix of works and I’m glad regional Sondheim is next to an NT Hamlet and Phantom of the opera.
I may be wrong but I can only spot one panto (Babes in the Wood with Roy Hudd). Surely these should be preserved? Then what about the ones we moan about Thriller, Duke Box musicals and endless touring Agatha Christie’s - history in all its riches should be captured? Erm, shouldn’t it ?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2018 20:16:51 GMT
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 18, 2018 19:13:25 GMT
Why don’t they make this available to everyone on line? Or is it only deemed appropriate for people who have access to London?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2018 19:31:12 GMT
It was me! They unlike our glorious V&A and NT archive, believe their sacred works (ha) should only be available to 'real' researchers, and you have to make a case for what you want to view (they let theatre professionals and academics, and it's not difficult to make something believable up it's just a bit less...welcoming) . They also have a ridiculous 'only one viewing per lifetime' rule and a 'no rewinding' rule (you physically can't it's controlled elsewhere.) In fairness the staff in that division were wonderful and helpful, unlike many of the others I dealt with. However I do plan to get around their 'once a lifetime' rule by coming back and haunting the sh*t out of them one day. By the way if anyone is interested in a career as an archivist, the NT just posted their annual assistant job position there.
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Post by peggs on Jun 18, 2018 20:01:54 GMT
They also have a ridiculous 'only one viewing per lifetime' rule and a 'no rewinding' rule (you physically can't it's controlled elsewhere.) One viewing?! Does the tape wear out with over use?!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2018 20:04:31 GMT
They also have a ridiculous 'only one viewing per lifetime' rule and a 'no rewinding' rule (you physically can't it's controlled elsewhere.) One viewing?! Does the tape wear out with over use?! In fairness many of them ARE old VHS recordings (Broadway started recording productions as a rule far earlier, in the late 70s/early 80s if I recall) However I’m sure none of them get watched THAT often. And also obviously someone should find some money for digitising but it’s the public library/Archive and that’s probably not going to happen sadly. Maybe my ghost will leave them some money before I haunt them
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jun 19, 2018 12:10:49 GMT
Why don’t they make this available to everyone on line? Or is it only deemed appropriate for people who have access to London? I live in London but as I work the usual 9-5, Mon - Fri I have no way of accessing unless I take time of work. Grrr. Seems bloody arrogant to me. At least the NT archive has one late night opening a week
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 15:21:58 GMT
Why don’t they make this available to everyone on line? Or is it only deemed appropriate for people who have access to London? I live in London but as I work the usual 9-5, Mon - Fri I have no way of accessing unless I take time of work. Grrr. Seems bloody arrogant to me. At least the NT archive has one late night opening a week I'm guessing with V&A/Blythe House it's an access issue- they don't have sole ownership/control of the building so are probably tied to some opening hours/staffing hours there. Whereas the NT Studio is both owned by them, and generally in use at all hours anyway due to the nature of it. Doesn't make it less annoying- but again, much of it comes down to spectacularly underfunded organisations in the arts.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 20, 2018 18:41:24 GMT
They could charge a nominal amount for viewing on line to cover the costs. Who wouldn’t pay a couple of quid to see those treasures? Appreciate the copyright issues but give the various parties a cut of the revenue and what’s not to like?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2018 18:52:27 GMT
They could charge a nominal amount for viewing on line to cover the costs. Who wouldn’t pay a couple of quid to see those treasures? Appreciate the copyright issues but give the various parties a cut of the revenue and what’s not to like? I agree, and I can see no reason in principle that charging a 'viewing fee' or even just an 'entry fee' to the archive if donated charitably causes any obvious issues (if it's technically a charitable donation that also offers possibility of waivers or reductions for certain groups etc too to keep it accessible)
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 20, 2018 20:14:11 GMT
Shall we do one of those petition thingies to make the archive truly public and not just public to those fortunate enough to be able to get there?
The first ever T-Board campaign?
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Post by crowblack on Jun 21, 2018 10:56:55 GMT
I don't see why they don't, in the era of Youtube and Vimeo. I remember some noises when archive stuff was made available to schools that it might stop schools taking children out to the actual theatre, but it's the job of active citizens to dig their heels in and insist that live theatre should be a part of everyone's education rather than wave that threat around. I'm sure the chance for people to watch productions from several years ago with their favourite TV or film actors in would get more bums on actual theatre seats, not less.
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Post by kathryn on Jun 21, 2018 11:46:41 GMT
I can see no reason in principle that charging a 'viewing fee' or even just an 'entry fee' It may be that when the shows were filmed, the original contract stipulated that it was on a "not for profit / non commercial" basis, meaning that they can't charge a fee of any type, perhaps. I agree the idea is good though. It’s probably to do with union agreements and the boilerplate language about copyright that went into the contracts people signed agreeing to be filmed. It’s likely that going through all the different contacts, checking the specific language (after all, online distribution wouldn’t have been thought of at the time of many of the recordings), and getting specific permission from all parties involved where required is the major hurdle. *If* you could get agreement from them - as we know, many of the recordings are very suboptimal experiences to watch, and there’s every chance some people would simply prefer not to have their work widely experienced and judged in that format.
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Post by kathryn on Jun 21, 2018 11:51:49 GMT
I don't see why they don't, in the era of Youtube and Vimeo. I remember some noises when archive stuff was made available to schools that it might stop schools taking children out to the actual theatre, but it's the job of active citizens to dig their heels in and insist that live theatre should be a part of everyone's education rather than wave that threat around. I'm sure the chance for people to watch productions from several years ago with their favourite TV or film actors in would get more bums on actual theatre seats, not less. The difference is that those were specifically-filmed recordings that were designed to work as pieces of entertainment, to mimic the theatrical experience as much as possible. Archive recordings are not - they’re simply a record of what the production did, like the prompt script is. They’re often very poor quality - a single fixed camera with poor resolution, sound caught from one mic which is difficult to make out, jumps and skips in the recording, etc.
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Post by crowblack on Jun 21, 2018 12:19:07 GMT
They’re often very poor quality Yes, but people using it will know it's not going to be TV or NT Live quality. If you are studying English or Drama at school or would love to be able to see a famous or groundbreaking production you have read about, even a poor recording of a good/historic production or performance will give you a better flavour of it than a couple of stills in a biography. I'd love to be able to revisit some productions I saw, even if it's just to dip in for a few minutes to refresh my old brain, but I can't afford to travel to London and book an afternoon to do it.
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Post by kathryn on Jun 21, 2018 13:24:03 GMT
I don't think we can argue that the various organizations involved should be making archive recordings available to the wider public and then argue that the only people who are going to be using it are the comparatively tiny number of people studying drama, or extreme theatre geeks. It's too expensive an exercise to go through if the audience is that tiny, and the quality is a concern if it's not.
It would be much cheaper for there just to be a travel grant scheme and extended opening hours, if the audience is that small!
People assume that 'online' = cheap, but this would not be a cheap project - it would take hundreds of hours to work out what agreements were needed, and negotiate them, let alone sorting out the actual hosting and streaming. You can't just put things up on Youtube if you need to reassure the creatives involved that their work won't be judged on the quality of the recording - or worse, turned into gifs that are used to troll them on social media.
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