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Post by BurlyBeaR on Mar 25, 2018 11:45:16 GMT
I don’t envy the tour cast, whoever that turns out to be, taking this turkey out on the road. The Lowry website says “following its sold out London run...” which is stretching it somewhat isn’t it?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2018 12:24:22 GMT
Ryan so right. Nice place to park your coat, browse a book, use yr laptop, have a drink, eat something. Pity not much good for plays. I probably go there as much as a stop gap place as to see plays but that said don't seem able to stop booking the plays. I've figured it out...Rufus is slipping something in the food/drink/aircon that makes us all keep coming back against our better judgement...
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4,608 posts
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Post by Someone in a tree on Mar 25, 2018 17:18:44 GMT
Ryan so right. Nice place to park your coat, browse a book, use yr laptop, have a drink, eat something. Pity not much good for plays. The foyer space for the Olivier has natural light, unlike the other two spaces #godihatethenash
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1,005 posts
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Post by nash16 on Mar 25, 2018 17:51:46 GMT
I don’t envy the tour cast, whoever that turns out to be, taking this turkey out on the road. The Lowry website says “following its sold out London run...” which is stretching it somewhat isn’t it? They'll offer to the understudies probably, to "upgrade". I doubt they're going to get any new names climbing onboard.
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860 posts
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Post by bordeaux on Mar 25, 2018 19:29:40 GMT
I don’t envy the tour cast, whoever that turns out to be, taking this turkey out on the road. The Lowry website says “following its sold out London run...” which is stretching it somewhat isn’t it? Well, presumably it was sold out when they wrote the publicity material...
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2,979 posts
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Post by crowblack on Mar 25, 2018 20:07:52 GMT
It was - it sold out instantly.
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2,818 posts
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Post by couldileaveyou on Mar 25, 2018 22:40:18 GMT
Is it me or the witches look like they're coming from three different productions?
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4,608 posts
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Post by Someone in a tree on Mar 26, 2018 16:01:58 GMT
The foyer space for the Olivier has natural light, unlike the other two spaces So what are the big windows on one side of the Lyttelton foyer, and the opening glass doors of the Dorfman looking out on, please? They may be big but they don’t appear to let much light in. The foyer is always so dark
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4,608 posts
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Post by Someone in a tree on Mar 26, 2018 17:18:34 GMT
I've always put that down to the dark stone and carpets, rather than architecture. Very true. But a dark room is still a dark room, so to speak !!
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5,599 posts
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Post by lynette on Mar 26, 2018 18:22:02 GMT
And here we are along the Thames, location loaded with history and lovely strand to walk along and enjoy and we can’t see it. This has to be the most stupid deliberate negation of London built in the twentieth century. Yes you can go out on the balconies but do you? Is there any incentive to do so? Can you get a drink, sit in comfort, enjoy some entertainment? I’m ranting now and I have done many times. Apologies.off topic. back to Macbeth...
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4,608 posts
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Post by Someone in a tree on Mar 26, 2018 18:25:41 GMT
Very good points. But back to Macbeth, although the NT’s choice of soft furnishings is unfortunately more interesting
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Post by bramble on Mar 27, 2018 19:32:55 GMT
A strong straightforward easy to understand production Perfectly acceptable.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2018 0:25:18 GMT
A strong straightforward easy to understand production Perfectly acceptable. You are Rufus Norris and I claim my ten pound voucher for a show at the NT.
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2,548 posts
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Post by n1david on Apr 7, 2018 8:46:39 GMT
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Post by underthestudy on Apr 7, 2018 10:02:21 GMT
What else could he say? "Yeah got the concept wrong and it's rubbish?". The more interesting interview about it will be in a few years.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2018 10:07:14 GMT
Upbeat interview in general - he is enjoying the job and would like a second term.
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Post by Jan on Apr 7, 2018 10:17:28 GMT
"Rufus Norris interview: A school without five minutes of arts can get a good Ofsted rating"
Lucky there aren't any then isn't it ?
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587 posts
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Post by Polly1 on Apr 7, 2018 10:44:49 GMT
"It’s not nice to be hammered or traduced or whatever way you put it. It’s interesting, actually. There’s sort of two experiences. There’s the experience of getting hammered for something and you quietly think they’re sort of right — there’s something about it that isn’t quite right. And then there’s the other one where you go, ‘Actually, I really stand by this piece of work’. And that’s painful in a very different way.”
He puts Macbeth in the latter category- of course - but if Common and Salome, referred to before this quote, are in the former, why on earth didn't he DO something!
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Apr 7, 2018 11:10:52 GMT
"Rufus Norris interview: A school without five minutes of arts can get a good Ofsted rating" Lucky there aren't any then isn't it ? It’s an exaggeration but some of the reductions in arts provision have been massive; the arts are seen as an ‘add on’ in many schools now, rather than being part of a rounded education. It’s a crisis, there is no other word for it.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Apr 7, 2018 11:27:09 GMT
When I was at school, theatre trips were paid for by parents. That is part of how I discovered a love of theatre.
When it was decided that schools needed to pay for such trips, it was inevitable that far fewer trips would take place.
I was lucky to have been taught how to read music at primary school - the headteacher did that himself every year. I was the wrong year to do the school production of Joseph - it was only done every other year. I did do all the nativity plays - progressing from myrrh through to gold in three successive years.
Once at upper school, there was one teacher in the English department who decided to do a school play - and decided on Our Town for the first effort and then Waiting for Godot the following year.
Drama wasn't part of the curriculum - but we did had shows and theatre trips. Music was part of the curriculum - but we didn't have a school band or choir.
I developed a massive love of theatre and music without it being part of my formal education. I certainly didn't get anything from the half-arsed TIE stuff that would be trotted out to make us aware of 'issues'.
I don't believe that formal arts education is absolutely necessary in schools. The best experiences for me came from having teachers who are passionate about theatre or music and who then inspire through extra curricular activities. Also having parents who had a love of theatre and literature is where the groundwork was laid.
I don't believe you can teach 'culture' - but you can foster a love of it. Let schools return to being allowed to arrange theatre trips that parents can pay for. Yes, that might exclude some on the grounds of costs - but then schools should be able to access 'access funds'. Expecting schools to fund all trips directly is why far few opportunities to go to see theatre exist.
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Post by foxa on Apr 7, 2018 13:26:57 GMT
I went to a state school which had excellent drama and music academic and extra-curricular provision, as well as a few English teachers who would take us on theatre outings.
I know my husband went to a state school which didn't have a drama department but had keen teachers who would put on plays and operettas, etc. arrange theatre trips (in ways that probably wouldn't be allowed anymore - one teacher taking a few students in his car down to Stratford, for example) and he greatly benefited from that.
BUT I think things have changed. With the huge paperwork/target-setting, etc. workload on teachers in state schools, it is very rare to find anyone but a designated drama and/or music teacher who will direct a school production (I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, but anecdotally I would say this is becoming increasingly rare.) So I think some parents/schools think, it's okay if there isn't a drama department as long as there are school productions and trips - but what they discover is that it's hard to get anyone to do those, as they aren't part of their job descriptions. In private schools, where there can be smaller class/fewer behaviour issues/less admin, there may be more of an ethos of different staff members chipping in to put on school shows, etc. (some private schools even hire in external directors, choreographers and designers.) Thus the gap will grow between state and private provision.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Apr 7, 2018 13:50:08 GMT
We aren't seeing any shortage of people wanting to enter the theatre profession. So any changes to the arts provision isn't impacting on the desire of young people to try their hand at acting/singing/dancing for a living.
From my anecdotal experience, there doesn't appear to be a shortage of school productions. My niece was cast in the school production of Hairspray last year, my housemate directs the annual school panto (as well as being involved in the House drama, dance and music competitions) and another friend is assistant directing the school production of Aladdin at the moment. All of these are state schools in very different areas - and both teachers are from the maths department!
I think a lot comes from the home environment. If your family took you to see the local village panto or shared a love of books, then you are almost inevitably more likely to grow up sharing those passions and enthusiasms. In my case, I took those and ran with them big style.
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Post by Snciole on Apr 7, 2018 15:02:28 GMT
I work for an examination board that does Drama exams and we have 2 state schools that regular ly do these exams compared to the dozens of independent schools that do them. This excludes drama clubs but the truth is whilst drama is very important I think the validation/moderation of it has become less of a priority, especially if you factor in that at GCSE/A Level there is a focus on the academic rather than the practical.
Personally I feel going to see plays, a written understanding of text and other non practical aspects are important for arts exams but the EBacc has made it less of a financial priority for schools to have a drama department let alone offer the chance to validate what they learn, many teachers are doing these exams without their heads knowing.
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Post by foxa on Apr 7, 2018 15:19:48 GMT
I''m very impressed with your Maths teacher Drama enthusiasts - part of my job involves working with a number of Drama teachers and I have never heard of a Maths teacher pitching in on, let alone leading, a production. That's great that they do that. In the schools where I worked, we felt very lucky if they turned up to see it.
I don't think you will see a shortage of people entering the theatre profession. You may just see fewer from some backgrounds.
Also, I wouldn't say that the only purpose of drama is to turn people into actors, etc. - any more than the purpose of English is to turn people in to professional writers. There are many other benefits to studying it.
When I would take students on trips to the theatre, it was not unusual for that to be their first theatre trip (or their first except for a panto.) I think (maybe idealistically) schools should try to offer cultural experiences that children may not get from their own homes.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2018 16:10:32 GMT
My school (up to GCSE anyway, I changed for 6th Form) never offered any kind of drama trip, nor did the school do any kind of production. Drama was on the curriculm, and I did it for GCSE, but it was I assume from memory fairly under-resourced, I remember the lessons being an undisciplined nightmare/chance for kids to mess around etc. Same with music- I in fact only had music lessons until Year 8, and there were no additional music tuition on offer (of the paid kind like Violin, guitar etc). The school was in a what I'd generously describe as 'not well off area' so I doubt many parents had the spare money to do a lot of cultural things off their own backs.
The point being I do think schools have a role/responsibility to offer at least a taster of 'culture' in any way possible. The PE department ran trips to athletics tournaments and various sporting matches, I see no issue with balancing that out with cultural activities. Especially for kids who come from backgrounds where their parents might not be engaged with the arts also (mine certainly weren't).
And it's this kind of 'culture gap' that will see fewer and fewer people from less privileged backgrounds not only entering the profession (s) in the arts but also engaging with it.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Apr 7, 2018 16:27:36 GMT
I think a far bigger barrier to entry into the professions is the cost of attending drama school - that is where lack of money really kicks in. Yes, there are some institutions where the courses fall within regular university funding but that is far from universal (and I am not sure we should use public money to provide unlimited drama training - given the nature of the profession)
When it costs c£100 plus travel costs to audition for many drama schools and then you have to find the fees/living costs - that is why access to professional training is frequently restricted to certain groups.
Schools should be providing rounded education - and that does include balancing funding for sports, drama, music etc.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Apr 7, 2018 17:31:22 GMT
A lot of useful points here. I have a lot of first hand experience of this and I can tell you that the change is recent and rapid. This also doesn’t matter miss out the independent sector. Teachers are not being replaced, being asked to go part time etc. and these are in stronger schools. Go further down the educational food chain and it gets worse. This was obvious when the EBacc was introduced. Fewer taking the subjects (the figures are widely available from, for example, The Stage, who have been great in highlighting the issue), fewer teachers, fewer specialist teachers, fewer taking the subjects then it disappears.
Simon, we had this conversation on a previous thread but you talk about a model whereby the arts are to consume not create, That is not a credible educational model anymore and arts teaching is not there to create artists, any more than history is to create historians or mathematics, mathematicians.
Regarding Drama schools, you (and others) are correct, there is a massive class divide now and it will only grow without targetted funding. Sadly, if the average response of this board is anything to go by, addressing disadvantage through gender, race, sexuality etc. is rightly unquestioned whereas access for the economically disadvantaged is, at best, dismissed as too difficult and, at worst, as unimportant. I’d like to, at least, see it taken seriously as an issue.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Apr 7, 2018 17:52:41 GMT
There will always be a problem when it comes to employment rates for those in the theatrical profession. The line most often quoted is that 90% of actors are out of work at any one time. I don't know how accurate that is - but working on the assumption that it is true, it does mean that those of independent means (or wealthy parents) are going to be able to afford to pursue their dreams post-training because they have the financial support for the down times. I don't know how you can reform the theatre sector to prevent that.
Do we take all drama schools into the university sector and then significantly reduce the number of places available so as to better reflect the needs of the industry? It has always struck me as unfair that people invest so much into training for a profession where the chances of recouping the costs of that investment are so relatively slim. You never want to stamp on the dreams of the hopeful, and you never want to turn away a future star in the making. But it is a very difficult balance to get right.
Talent should be nurtured and having good scholarship schemes for those from more disadvantaged backgrounds is clearly a necessary element to the picture.
In terms of the consume/create divide, I think it would be fair to say that most people are consumers of the arts rather than creators. Nurturing future audiences is what will allow the creators to have the opportunity for their work to be seen and enjoyed.
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Post by Jan on Apr 7, 2018 18:06:42 GMT
When I was at school, theatre trips were paid for by parents. That is part of how I discovered a love of theatre. When it was decided that schools needed to pay for such trips, it was inevitable that far fewer trips would take place. I was lucky to have been taught how to read music at primary school - the headteacher did that himself every year. I was the wrong year to do the school production of Joseph - it was only done every other year. I did do all the nativity plays - progressing from myrrh through to gold in three successive years. Once at upper school, there was one teacher in the English department who decided to do a school play - and decided on Our Town for the first effort and then Waiting for Godot the following year. Drama wasn't part of the curriculum - but we did had shows and theatre trips. Music was part of the curriculum - but we didn't have a school band or choir. I developed a massive love of theatre and music without it being part of my formal education. I certainly didn't get anything from the half-arsed TIE stuff that would be trotted out to make us aware of 'issues'. I don't believe that formal arts education is absolutely necessary in schools. The best experiences for me came from having teachers who are passionate about theatre or music and who then inspire through extra curricular activities. Also having parents who had a love of theatre and literature is where the groundwork was laid. I don't believe you can teach 'culture' - but you can foster a love of it. Let schools return to being allowed to arrange theatre trips that parents can pay for. Yes, that might exclude some on the grounds of costs - but then schools should be able to access 'access funds'. Expecting schools to fund all trips directly is why far few opportunities to go to see theatre exist. Uh ? Schools ARE allowed to have parents pay for school theatre trips, I’ve paid for three in the last 6 months, the school (state school) only pays for those who can’t afford it. Studying English at Oxbridge would appear to be a better option than drama anyway if you want a top directing job.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Apr 7, 2018 18:13:42 GMT
There will always be a problem when it comes to employment rates for those in the theatrical profession. The line most often quoted is that 90% of actors are out of work at any one time. I don't know how accurate that is - but working on the assumption that it is true, it does mean that those of independent means (or wealthy parents) are going to be able to afford to pursue their dreams post-training because they have the financial support for the down times. I don't know how you can reform the theatre sector to prevent that. Do we take all drama schools into the university sector and then significantly reduce the number of places available so as to better reflect the needs of the industry? It has always struck me as unfair that people invest so much into training for a profession where the chances of recouping the costs of that investment are so relatively slim. You never want to stamp on the dreams of the hopeful, and you never want to turn away a future star in the making. But it is a very difficult balance to get right. Talent should be nurtured and having good scholarship schemes for those from more disadvantaged backgrounds is clearly a necessary element to the picture. In terms of the consume/create divide, I think it would be fair to say that most people are consumers of the arts rather than creators. Nurturing future audiences is what will allow the creators to have the opportunity for their work to be seen and enjoyed. Taking Drama Schools into the university system would help. I’ve always made sure that any of my own students with a desire to go into performance only focus on establishments with a name as there are a number of places where you aren’t helping your future chances at all. i absolutely believe that education isn’t about the consumer side, any of it. Given how much young people now have access to a means of creating and widely distributing their own creativity now, I think it’s important to give them the tools at school level. Things have changed so much even in the last decade on that score. Give students the tools by 14/16/18, don’t wait to send them off to get an expensive and/or useless degree when they would be better just trying their hand at it on leaving school instead.
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