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Post by Phantom of London on Feb 28, 2018 15:55:24 GMT
I wonder how many non-Equity rate shows Shenton has reviewed over the past year. Just to get a sense of what he sees to be the scale of the problem. I really don't have any real idea as to the scope of non-Equity rates in the industry. I’d expect Mr Shenton will be a stranger at the SWP going forward. Because I don’t see how they can stage musicals, in London, with those ticket prices and still be paying the actors, musicians and crew minimum wage. The SWP gets Art Council funding.
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Post by Phantom of London on Feb 28, 2018 18:23:15 GMT
Acting is the ultimate carrot and stick career. Where people dream of the red carpet, with their chauffeur limousine waiting, but first you have to navigate the baying paparazzi, or you fly from Los Angles to Paris vis New York and London to promote your new movie, naturally you travel first class, but the producer picks up the bill. But the likelihood all that is going to be a pipe dream and as pointed out on here your lines will be “what would you like for your main” or on a phone telling people “we are not trying to sell you anything”. So most artists and creatives are chasing that unlikely dream, so in a way they’re vulnerable. Why should then because they are chasing that said elusive dream, should this make them entitled to be exploited?
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Post by oxfordsimon on Feb 28, 2018 18:44:12 GMT
It is not just actors who dream. All too often you hear of those rogue model agencies who charge the hopeful an arm and a leg to join their books - and never get them any work.
In many ways, you can view the way some drama schools charge a lot for auditions as a form of exploitation. I have heard tell of figures up to £150 to be seen - and they don't give any feedback other than yes or no. So if you are applying to a few, you can be out of pocket of close to £1k by the time you factor in travel and other costs. And the drama schools can get away with it because so many people want to enter the profession.
Yes, there are costs involved in running entry auditions. Even more so if you are running auditions for musical theatre when you need to provide pianists. But those costs do seem excessive - as most of those on the panel will be members of staff doing this as part of their job! £150 is a lot for admin...
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Post by TallPaul on Feb 28, 2018 19:23:24 GMT
The SWP gets Art Council funding. If SWP is the Southwark Playhouse, then I'm not sure it does, at least not in the current funding cycle just coming to an end. Happy to be corrected.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2018 20:09:53 GMT
The SWP gets Art Council funding. If SWP is the Southwark Playhouse, then I'm not sure it does, at least not in the current funding cycle just coming to an end. Happy to be corrected. No it isn't: southwarkplayhouse.co.uk/support-us/Not to say that some productions that go through there wouldn't be (if they've had a production grant or whatever ACE call them). Also I can't speak with great authority on ACE but my own Arts Council experience was that again, pay was not a 'hard and fast rule' thing in terms of how much people should be paid. AND you don't actually have to PROVE that you paid that (at least not in Wales) it's taken on 'good faith'. So again the actual scamming scoundrels would get away with it (in the short term at least)
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Post by Phantom of London on Feb 28, 2018 21:54:03 GMT
Okay it used to get funded though the Arts Council.
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Post by firefingers on Feb 28, 2018 23:18:03 GMT
If SWP is the Southwark Playhouse, then I'm not sure it does, at least not in the current funding cycle just coming to an end. Happy to be corrected. No it isn't: southwarkplayhouse.co.uk/support-us/Not to say that some productions that go through there wouldn't be (if they've had a production grant or whatever ACE call them). Also I can't speak with great authority on ACE but my own Arts Council experience was that again, pay was not a 'hard and fast rule' thing in terms of how much people should be paid. AND you don't actually have to PROVE that you paid that (at least not in Wales) it's taken on 'good faith'. So again the actual scamming scoundrels would get away with it (in the short term at least) All on good faith over here too. It may have been an issue on a show I worked on. Depending on the producer musicals at SWP usually pay about 200 a week, too low for Mark Shenton's approval. I did a whole host of low pay gigs early on. I set myself a basic rule on my pay: I wouldn't do a show for less than a ticket to that show. Felt fair for someone learning the ropes. As long as everyone is getting bugger all then I'm fine with it. One fringe producer has recently got a nice pad in fancy bit of East London, but will happily stick cast on 100 a week plus profit share and no profit is found at the end of the run... someone is making money and not others. Not on really. It's why I support producers who run an open book and let every company member view the finances at the end. Of course numbers can be fiddled but it helps.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2018 9:19:47 GMT
OH!!! May I suggest *not* using SWP as an abbreviation for Southwark Playhouse? "Southwark" being all one word means I've been spending the last few days wondering if I missed where Mark Shenton suddenly became a massive proponent of the Sam Wanamaker Playhouse!
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Mar 1, 2018 14:03:46 GMT
There is a lot of exploitation financial and otherwise in acting. We would do a lot better to ban drama school audition fees and CD workshops before banning profit share fringe.
And critics need to look to their own behaviour. There is one now-notorious blog who requested tickets to almost every single show on Vault Festival this year, yet reviewed only about three. Of course requesting a press comp is not a guarantee of attendance or review, but requests should be made in good faith, ie on the intention of reviewing. Blithely requesting hundreds of comps when you cannot physically attend shows a level of carelessness towards the fact these small companies and artists rely on ticket sales to cover their costs. Requesting a comp with no intention of attending leaves a seat empty that may have been sold to a paying audience member.
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Post by westendwilma on Mar 1, 2018 17:53:26 GMT
So its just been announced that Shenton is heading to NY to be The Stage's lead theatre critic there? So he won't be in London to review shows regardless of whether people are being paid or not?
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 1, 2018 17:57:25 GMT
Has it? Where?
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Post by princeton on Mar 1, 2018 18:27:46 GMT
John Lahr was theatre critic for the New Yorker magazine for more than 20 years but was based in London. He used to go to NYC to binge on theatre and then eke out his reviews over a few weeks, I suspect that's what will happen with Shenton. He'll no doubt review UK theatre for other outlets.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 1, 2018 18:39:46 GMT
Just seen it on his Twitter feed.
It makes his article seem even more of an ego trip as he must have known that he would be shifting focus to NY when he wrote it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2018 21:47:15 GMT
And critics need to look to their own behaviour. There is one now-notorious blog who requested tickets to almost every single show on Vault Festival this year, yet reviewed only about three. Of course requesting a press comp is not a guarantee of attendance or review, but requests should be made in good faith, ie on the intention of reviewing Sitting next to empty seats on press (and indeed trade) nights makes me angry as hell. Of course it is bad manners to accept a comp and not review. Personally, I do say "no" when I know there is no chance I'll either make it or write about it. It's the only right thing to do, as there is always someone who will, and be useful to the production as a result. Ditto all of that. Obviously life happens and sometimes something comes up last minute but unless it’s an actual emergency phoning to cancel press tickets (or emailing) takes minutes. And of course the outright self importance of accepting on the off chance you can be arsed to go.
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Post by shady23 on Mar 1, 2018 23:10:46 GMT
Not a fan, he doesn't half come across as full of an inflated self importance
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 1, 2018 23:15:34 GMT
Do you think Shenton was the inspiration for Elder Price?
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Post by Phantom of London on Mar 4, 2018 1:24:46 GMT
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Post by joem on Mar 4, 2018 10:01:23 GMT
OH!!! May I suggest *not* using SWP as an abbreviation for Southwark Playhouse? "Southwark" being all one word means I've been spending the last few days wondering if I missed where Mark Shenton suddenly became a massive proponent of the Sam Wanamaker Playhouse! Or the Socialist Workers' Party.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2018 11:10:55 GMT
I've genuinely, involuntarily said "Oh f*** off" at that article.
"I will only read reviews and features written by people who are paid to write them."
Is just an excuse to extend critical snobbery (fear?) of other writers. I'm all for getting paid for my writing. But my reviews for unpaid sites are no less valid.
Also Shenton is being very quiet on the issue of how we work out playwright's salaries. My current commission is already working out at less than minimum wage, and it's not close to done. I'm ok with that, I signed up for that, because I feel it's a worthwhile investment of time/lack of money for the future.
This and observing a lot of the replies to tweets I'm afraid all reeks of self serving, and self promotion.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 6, 2018 14:47:54 GMT
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Post by Phantom of London on Mar 7, 2018 20:14:18 GMT
I believe Phil Willmott is a fringe producer?
However there are some weasel words in there, such as “The London fringe is the only place where most people can hone their craft and build a CV that just might get them into the audition room”. so I read this to get a chance of getting to that elusive carrot on a stick, it is fine if we exploit you in the meantime.
He also points out examples of people in theatre who have made a success, these people would have been a success whatever because quality always shines through and the commercial theatre will always need great artists and creatives to remain vibrant and necessary . Not sure why Nica Burns is on the list?
Also the venues made a business management decision to have a small venue and it is shameful the operator built such a venue in knowledge that their employees will not get a salary. The fringe equity agreement isn’t a lot of money and you couldn’t survive on it in London or any other British city, it will barely pay for your travelling money and food.
I know an actor who couldn’t afford to pay his tuition fees back, so declared himself bankrupt.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 7, 2018 21:05:36 GMT
I would wager that he knows a lot more about the realities of running fringe productions than Shenton.
Nothing I have heard of his work would indicate that he exploits anyone for his productions. He works within the budgets he can afford. As do the vast majority of those on the fringe.
Yes, there are rogue producers but they are not the norm.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2018 21:52:47 GMT
Phil Willmott isn't a name I'd pick on here, he's always been very transparent about how he operates.
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Post by Phantom of London on Jul 26, 2018 12:45:12 GMT
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Post by lynette on Jul 26, 2018 13:10:23 GMT
What a cheapskate.
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