4,631 posts
|
Post by Phantom of London on Feb 2, 2018 17:16:38 GMT
My point was never about sexism or misogyny, I see the merits of anonymous play submissions, I also see the pitfalls which Emily has kindly pointed out. I could also live my life quite contently if I never saw David Hare's Red Barn. However the National's and Almeida making their artistic policy put forward in black and white has quite frankly left them open to suggestions.
It is quite true that women are underrepresented, but it is also true that quality is underrepresented.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 18:55:26 GMT
Glad you got the drift of what I was saying Phantom!
(I could live without...well David Hare’s work in general from now on as well)
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 19:45:34 GMT
You can see the strength of the writing even from the very short extract of Machinal. The writer is either gifted or spent a lot of time honing each sentence. There is no evidence of this in the other extracts. Must be a real boon to be able to successfully judge whether a play/playwright is decent or not based on an isolated extract. Actually, my post says that the extracts presented do not seem to have been crafted, not the whole play. I suppose it is the PR person's responsibility to publicise the play using text that gives you a flavour of the play. Often they don't choose the best piece of writing, but in my opinion (and it is all subjective, isn't it?) the extract from Machinal really does make me want to see the play. When a character describes her skin curling... I want to know more about the character who speaks this way. I do agree with N1 David that some of the other plays are still in development or at draft stage. In some ways I wish I hadn't posted to the thread because I want to support women writers and want to hear their stories. I also agree with Phantom that quality is underrepresented in theatre at the moment and it is almost as though younger/newer writers are not being encouraged to apply rigour to their work; directors won't do that important dramaturgical work with them because the less skilled the writers are the more the director can inhabit the role of auteur.
|
|
|
Post by Honoured Guest on Feb 3, 2018 13:55:15 GMT
The qualite of posts on theatre boards has also deteriorated. I blame the Brexit referendum.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 14:17:39 GMT
The qualite of posts on theatre boards has also deteriorated. I blame the Brexit referendum. In some cases, the quality was very poor to begin with.
|
|
2,706 posts
|
Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Feb 3, 2018 17:32:40 GMT
Must be a real boon to be able to successfully judge whether a play/playwright is decent or not based on an isolated extract. Oh, I think judging someone on the smallest bit of information you have is the only way to do it quite frankly. When you start to know more about them it becomes much harder to do and I do so hate having to back down or eat my words. Ryan, after your having seen Lady Windermere's Fan, I think that Oscar Wilde* is rubbing off on you. * his style that is, very Duchess of Berwick......
|
|
|
Post by Jan on Feb 3, 2018 18:07:03 GMT
Positive discrimination may be progressive but it is of course illegal in the UK. That is why it is odd the NT were quite so open about recruiting to fill a specific gender balance. Yes but positive action isn't illegal. And in a creative environment there it has been (all too) easy to dodge any kind of recruitment legislation because'best for the job' is even more subjective and difficult to prove than in any other industries. 'Best writer for the job' is simply on the say so of the AD. And so it's worked both ways- with men dominating until now. Other than showing off the fact you know how to google, you're also making no point whatsoever other than you don't support the idea of moves towards gender parity in the arts or indeed probably any workplace. Oh I didn’t need to Google to know about employment law. My comment related to NT admin and backstage staff, they have set a target for recruitment into those areas too. While positive action is allowed, recruiting to meet a specific gender percentage split comes under the heading of positive discrimination. Probably it is prohibited under the European Convention on Human Rights too so you’d better hope for a hard Brexit - you can’t pick and choose which bits you like and don’t like Just as an aside, I see recently Saint Jeremy’s beloved Momentum formed a shortlist for their regional chairs. Of the 17 names guess how many were women ? (Clue: it was less than one).
|
|
1,119 posts
|
Post by martin1965 on Feb 3, 2018 19:51:13 GMT
Oh, I think judging someone on the smallest bit of information you have is the only way to do it quite frankly. When you start to know more about them it becomes much harder to do and I do so hate having to back down or eat my words. Ryan, after your having seen Lady Windermere's Fan, I think that Oscar Wilde* is rubbing off on you. * his style that is, very Duchess of Berwick...... Oh god! Dont encourage Ryan but mentioning "rubbing off"😉
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2018 10:38:07 GMT
Of the 56 plays I saw last year very few were by women - Nina Raine, Elinor Cooke (version of The Lady from the Sea) Tanika Gupta., the author of the play the Goats and Grimly Handsome (forgive me, I have forgotten their names) I didn’t notice for a while and when I did it seemed so strange. There were plays by women that I didn’t get to see but mostly women playwrights were conspicuous by their absence. It is also interesting to me that some of the female playwrights who are perceived as among the most gifted were either overlooked earlier in their careers (Caryl Churchill) or reviled (Sarah Kane). So, the argument about quality is quite a tricky one. I always think that Theatre should represent its society so programming should try to reflect diversity. We should also remember that there is always an agenda behind the planning of every season - an AD doesn’t simply produce every excellent play that they receive. I have heard from friends about successful plays that ADs passed on and which were produced elsewhere. I could name at least one play produced last year where this was the case. An almost all male season does not mean that the AD received no good plays from women writers
|
|
4,631 posts
|
Post by Phantom of London on Feb 4, 2018 21:29:03 GMT
The point though, which seems to be passing not just Phantom (so I don't want to single you out here) and many other males on the board (and beyond) by is that women haven't been presented with the same opportunities to demonstrate their merit. Institutionalized sexism and misogyny means that women are decades behind their male counterparts. Women of colour even further so. And it takes radical shifts in thinking to get women on a par with men in terms of representation. Only when it becomes the norm to see as many plays by women as men, will we genuinely be selected on merit alone. In terms of submissions to a theatre, I'm all in favour of anonymous submission to competitions etc which means all are read with as little bias as possible. But once you get to Almeida level writing the names will be known. So I'm afraid that action to consciously programme more women (and POC while we're at it) IS the only way to address this imbalance Mused over this today and perhaps my original post may have been a bit strong and came across wrong, so my point wasn’t really well made then. The most important play a budding playwright can submit is their first one, or the first one that gets agreed to be produced, these ones is the base you can build your future. So up to this point why doesn’t the AD accept plays blind of gender. You can put you personal details in a separate envelope. The AD can anoounce what plays they intend to put on at the press conference and perhaps open those envelopes then with those personal details, or at a later date Obviously it wouldn’t work with an established playwright, who has had a professional relationship with the AD. If this procedure is adopted, then the argument about equality becomes irrelevant.
|
|
5,432 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by oxfordsimon on Feb 4, 2018 21:41:15 GMT
An AD can't hold a press conference announcing a new season of work without having contracts in place for each production - so as exciting as a reveal would be, it wouldn't work in the real world.
Blind submission for scripts is a sensible step for all relevant competitions/processes - but inevitably you will need human contact before you go into production.
I am currently starting a project to improve awareness of existing scripts by women writers amongst Oxford theatremakers - we are starting with play-readings to demonstrate the breadth of talent out there. Hopefully that will encourage more directors to think more broadly when it comes to repertoire. There is going to be a debate to be had around the subject of quotas - and I don't know how the local theatre community will react to that.
I don't think there is an easy answer to ensure equality - particularly when companies need to think about the bottom line. Because of the existing imbalance in terms of audience awareness of plays/authors, there will inevitably an imbalance in the perception of audience appeal and thus the potential marketability of any given title.
In time, more plays written by women will become more popular and thus more frequently staged. We can do all we can to speed up that process - but success will not be immediate. Continued awareness, monitoring and effort will eventually bring change.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2018 22:04:34 GMT
Can I remind you all that the Royal Court produces an equal number of male and female playwrights. This tradition was established by Max Stafford Clarke who, despite now being a fallen angel, consciously developed and championed the work of some of our leading playwrights: Caryl Churchill, Timberlake Wertenbaker, the late Claire McIntyre, Sarah Daniels and Andrea Dunbar. No one ever questions the quality of this work (both male and female authors have garnered great good and not so good reviews) So, it can be done and the RC is already doing it.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2018 11:32:57 GMT
Oh, I think judging someone on the smallest bit of information you have is the only way to do it quite frankly. When you start to know more about them it becomes much harder to do and I do so hate having to back down or eat my words. Ryan, after your having seen Lady Windermere's Fan, I think that Oscar Wilde* is rubbing off on you. * his style that is, very Duchess of Berwick...... You know, I think I'd be rather good in an Oscar Wilde play. I would suit a frock coat.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2018 13:45:01 GMT
Ryan, after your having seen Lady Windermere's Fan, I think that Oscar Wilde* is rubbing off on you. * his style that is, very Duchess of Berwick...... You know, I think I'd be rather good in an Oscar Wilde play. I would suit a frock coat. You might also suit a crinoline.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2018 14:26:34 GMT
You know, I think I'd be rather good in an Oscar Wilde play. I would suit a frock coat. You might also suit a crinoline. Alas, I fear not. As a child living in Amsterdam, I had an unfortunate incident with a piece of "cake" and a windmill staircase that left me with an inner ear infection and a constant battle with balance. I think the weight of a crinoline would play merry havoc with me and sadly, those around me.
|
|
5,588 posts
|
Post by lynette on Feb 5, 2018 17:49:15 GMT
Ryan, I think you've just pitched a movie there...
|
|
5,432 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by oxfordsimon on Feb 5, 2018 18:10:36 GMT
Did you have a mouse in that windmill?
A mouse!
Where?
There on the stair
Where on the stair?
Right there. A little mouse with clogs on.
Well, I declare going clip clippity clop on the stairs. Right there.
|
|
5,432 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by oxfordsimon on Feb 5, 2018 18:25:46 GMT
It is a veritable hit in the making. Now all we need are some writers, some performers, and lots of money.
Oh, and some "cake" for Ryan.
Perhaps we can work in a scene for Ryan and Marie Antoinette...
|
|
3,475 posts
|
Post by showgirl on Feb 5, 2018 19:06:01 GMT
My nomination for scriptwriter - prompted, admittedly, by fond memories of In Bruges - is Martin McDonagh.
|
|
578 posts
|
Post by lou105 on Feb 6, 2018 13:52:35 GMT
Now all we need are .. some performers.. Imelda Staunton should be up for this, after her tale on the Graham Norton show about a mouse running around inside her coat in Gypsy.
|
|
1,465 posts
|
Post by foxa on Feb 8, 2018 10:15:58 GMT
Just a reminder that it is standard level members booking today from 10 a.m. Very straightforward - I was on in about 5 minutes. Pretty good availability for the shows.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 17:15:00 GMT
Sub-plot: a pet cemetery in the Netherlands. A man is admiring the floral garden, particularly the hollyhocks. He asks the gardener how they grow so beautifully. "Well" the gardener replies, "the cats and dogs, we bury properly. Small creatures - hamsters - we simply turn into a puree in our blender, and we use that as fertiliser on this garden." "That is interesting," says the man. "The fact that you spread hamster and get hollyhocks... I always thought that you got tulips from hamster jam." I thank you. The old ones are the best, Monkey
|
|
371 posts
|
Post by popcultureboy on Feb 9, 2018 9:38:06 GMT
Just a reminder that it is standard level members booking today from 10 a.m. Very straightforward - I was on in about 5 minutes. Pretty good availability for the shows. Me too, booked for all 3 in the £10 seats, took no time at all. Suspect everyone else was trying to get tickets for McKellen. Suspect these won't fly off the shelves at the first instance though, so I hope they have some grade A casting up their sleeves.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2018 9:48:15 GMT
After successfully transferring Hamlet and Mary Stuart, they probably feel like they've got a little leeway to relax and put on shows that are less sure-fire for a season. (Slightly disappointing if that's also why there's such heavy female representation in writers and directors, but I suppose the reasoning doesn't matter as much as actually Doing The Thing.) I wonder if Albion's going to pop its head up again? It didn't blow me away, but I know a lot of others were extremely impressed by it.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 11:08:18 GMT
Tickets are now on general sale.
|
|