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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2017 23:51:01 GMT
The bare facts are
From Hytner and Norris
One is highly intelligent Articulate Interesting to speak to Well read And able to direct a wide variety of shows Succesfully From Shakespeare To One Man To Rafta Rafta To His Dark Materials
The other Well....
I also wonder if when Norris does his story from his time at the NT Will he have anything worthy to put in it Will anyone want to read it Will anyone give a sh*t Will radio 4 serialise it
I doubt it
Unless Norris is going to perform miracles In the next 4 years
The gap between the two is widening
I also highly doubt Norris will remain at the NT As long as Hytner
I hear the venue has depreciated Amongst actors
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Post by lynette on Dec 28, 2017 23:59:37 GMT
The venue has depreciated if that is the right word, Parsley, with audiences too. It is no longer a lot of fun going there. Well, I speak for myself I suppose and my friends.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 0:12:45 GMT
The venue has depreciated if that is the right word, Parsley, with audiences too. It is no longer a lot of fun going there. Well, I speak for myself I suppose and my friends. Some Time ago I spoke With an actor who was in several shows At the start of the Norris regime Things are rocky Yes it’s not burning down And shows will keep coming And there is no international crisis And no one died But standards and quality have slipped Across The venue In the widest possible sense I have seen every single show at the NT Since 2004 or so And many prior to this Perhaps Its personal taste But I have spent an hour or so looking Through my old Programmes Far more to impress and of interest 10 years ago than there is now My family are also much more reluctant To Attend the NT now As I have pointed out before Their favourite shows there Included My Fair Lady War Horse Funny Thing Forum Measure for Measure Dark Materials I don’t think Norris Has done anything close to My Fair Lady in terms of production quality Dark Materials in terms of ambition Funny Thing in terms of sheer entertainment War Horse in terms of financial success Oh sorry he is still finding his feet And learning to walk
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Dec 29, 2017 0:15:03 GMT
Point of Information - Norris is the first non-Oxbridge AD in over forty years (non-Cambridge in fact). A certain type of person doesn't like that sort of thing, lowers the tone of the place.
EDIT: Forum was dire, just appalling, Ed Hall screwed up Once in a Lifetime in the Olivier as well. My Fair Lady was solid but no greater than scores of West End musicals then and since, His Dark Materials was a stunning design in search of a script that stopped to think rather than just plot, plot, plot. Measure for Measure wasn't Complicite at their best, for that look to Mnemonic, Diappearing Number, Master & Margarita etc. Poor taste overall, only War Horse is worthy of being in a best of list over that period of time.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 0:24:39 GMT
Point of Information - Norris is the first non-Oxbridge AD in over forty years (non-Cambridge in fact). A certain type of person doesn't like that sort of thing, lowers the tone of the place. A certain type of person Is also relied on To Fill The open gob When the NT asks for money To rebuild the venue Or fund the apparently lavish Follies (Obviously I have a different definition of “lavish”) I would Be interested to know The donation And funding rates Of Oxbridge patrons I bet they are higher than the general population
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 0:25:55 GMT
Point of Information - Norris is the first non-Oxbridge AD in over forty years (non-Cambridge in fact). A certain type of person doesn't like that sort of thing, lowers the tone of the place. EDIT: Forum was dire, just appalling, Ed Hall screwed up Once in a Lifetime in the Olivier as well. My Fair Lady was solid but no greater than scores of West End musicals then and since, His Dark Materials was a stunning design in search of a script that stopped to think rather than just plot, plot, plot. Measure for Measure wasn't Complicite at their best, for that look to Mnemonic, Diappearing Number, Master & Margarita etc. Poor taste overall, only War Horse is worthy of being in a best of list over that period of time. www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/stage/2004/jul/12/theatrewww.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/stage/2004/jul/12/theatrewww.thestage.co.uk/reviews/2004/a-funny-thing-happened-on-the-way-to-the-forum-review-at-olivier-london/www.google.co.uk/amp/variety.com/2004/legit/reviews/a-funny-thing-happened-on-the-way-to-the-forum-7-1200532077/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/drama/3620591/Ancient-Rome-with-dirty-old-men.htmlI don’t think it was that dire Perhaps That’s why you aren’t a theatre critic And have to post your opinions for Free??
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 0:34:40 GMT
Point of Information - Norris is the first non-Oxbridge AD in over forty years (non-Cambridge in fact). A certain type of person doesn't like that sort of thing, lowers the tone of the place. EDIT: Forum was dire, just appalling, Ed Hall screwed up Once in a Lifetime in the Olivier as well. My Fair Lady was solid but no greater than scores of West End musicals then and since, His Dark Materials was a stunning design in search of a script that stopped to think rather than just plot, plot, plot. Measure for Measure wasn't Complicite at their best, for that look to Mnemonic, Diappearing Number, Master & Margarita etc. Poor taste overall, only War Horse is worthy of being in a best of list over that period of time. “My Fair Lady was solid” That and Anything Goes Transferred to the biggest theatre in London I would Be interested to see what Norris Transfers to Drury Lane Wonder.land perhaps Or Pinocchio?? The man has no financial acumen at all I would love a debate Hytner V Norris Like the election ones they do Perhaps it would be too cruel though As so unfair 😂😂
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Dec 29, 2017 0:39:15 GMT
Point of Information - Norris is the first non-Oxbridge AD in over forty years (non-Cambridge in fact). A certain type of person doesn't like that sort of thing, lowers the tone of the place. EDIT: Forum was dire, just appalling, Ed Hall screwed up Once in a Lifetime in the Olivier as well. My Fair Lady was solid but no greater than scores of West End musicals then and since, His Dark Materials was a stunning design in search of a script that stopped to think rather than just plot, plot, plot. Measure for Measure wasn't Complicite at their best, for that look to Mnemonic, Diappearing Number, Master & Margarita etc. Poor taste overall, only War Horse is worthy of being in a best of list over that period of time. www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/stage/2004/jul/12/theatrewww.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/stage/2004/jul/12/theatrewww.thestage.co.uk/reviews/2004/a-funny-thing-happened-on-the-way-to-the-forum-review-at-olivier-london/www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/drama/3620591/Ancient-Rome-with-dirty-old-men.htmlI don’t think it was that dire Perhaps That’s why you aren’t a theatre critic And have to post your opinions for Free?? The Nathan Lane Broadway revival was far superior to the witless mess that Hall served up. It's the sort of show that benefits from an American director who knows vaudeville and burlesque. As for reviewing this is a useful point to pick on as no review or reviewer, in my opinion, is worth payment. A whole industry has built up in trying to convince people that there can be objectivity in reviews when it's impossible. All they are, are opinions backed up in one direction, whilst others do the same in other directions, it's just a game. That said, my job involves an academic analysis of theatre and criticism as a part of it although I'd rather go penniless than if I was paid just for giving opinions.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 0:40:58 GMT
Norris should Go on Dragons Den
And apply For Funding
See what they make of his track record
😂😂😂
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Dec 29, 2017 0:42:13 GMT
Point of Information - Norris is the first non-Oxbridge AD in over forty years (non-Cambridge in fact). A certain type of person doesn't like that sort of thing, lowers the tone of the place. EDIT: Forum was dire, just appalling, Ed Hall screwed up Once in a Lifetime in the Olivier as well. My Fair Lady was solid but no greater than scores of West End musicals then and since, His Dark Materials was a stunning design in search of a script that stopped to think rather than just plot, plot, plot. Measure for Measure wasn't Complicite at their best, for that look to Mnemonic, Diappearing Number, Master & Margarita etc. Poor taste overall, only War Horse is worthy of being in a best of list over that period of time. “My Fair Lady was solid” That and Anything Goes Transferred to the biggest theatre in London I would Be interested to see what Norris Transfers to Drury Lane Wonder.land perhaps Or Pinocchio?? The man has no financial acumen at all I would love a debate Hytner V Norris Like the election ones they do Perhaps it would be too cruel though As so unfair 😂😂 Anything Goes was nothing spectacular either, again the Americans did its revival better. The superior NT revivals were Oklahoma and Carousel (sublime), if a musical goes to Broadway that's a good indicator of success.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 0:43:29 GMT
The Nathan Lane Broadway revival was far superior to the witless mess that Hall served up. It's the sort of show that benefits from an American director who knows vaudeville and burlesque. As for reviewing this is a useful point to pick on as no review or reviewer, in my opinion, is worth payment. A whole industry has built up in trying to convince people that there can be objectivity in reviews when it's impossible. All they are, are opinions backed up in one direction, whilst others do the same in other directions, it's just a game. That said, my job involves an academic analysis of theatre and criticism as a part of it although I'd rather go penniless than if I was paid just for giving opinions. People Pay for opinions all The time Eg: going to the doctor And shopping around For opinions
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 0:45:10 GMT
The Nathan Lane Broadway revival was far superior to the witless mess that Hall served up. It's the sort of show that benefits from an American director who knows vaudeville and burlesque. As for reviewing this is a useful point to pick on as no review or reviewer, in my opinion, is worth payment. A whole industry has built up in trying to convince people that there can be objectivity in reviews when it's impossible. All they are, are opinions backed up in one direction, whilst others do the same in other directions, it's just a game. That said, my job involves an academic analysis of theatre and criticism as a part of it although I'd rather go penniless than if I was paid just for giving opinions. Academic analysis of theatre Saving humanity I see 😂😂😂
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Dec 29, 2017 0:49:10 GMT
The Nathan Lane Broadway revival was far superior to the witless mess that Hall served up. It's the sort of show that benefits from an American director who knows vaudeville and burlesque. As for reviewing this is a useful point to pick on as no review or reviewer, in my opinion, is worth payment. A whole industry has built up in trying to convince people that there can be objectivity in reviews when it's impossible. All they are, are opinions backed up in one direction, whilst others do the same in other directions, it's just a game. That said, my job involves an academic analysis of theatre and criticism as a part of it although I'd rather go penniless than if I was paid just for giving opinions. People Pay for opinions all The time Eg: going to the doctor And shopping around For opinions You really think an opinion on a show is akin to an opinion on someone's health? All those years of training and graft and you want to get lumped in with someone saying what they felt when watching something? EDIT: Also, education may not save humanity but it may make it a little bit more bearable.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 0:53:53 GMT
People Pay for opinions all The time Eg: going to the doctor And shopping around For opinions You really think an opinion on a show is akin to an opinion on someone's health? All those years of training and graft and you want to get lumped in with someone saying what they felt when watching something? EDIT: Also, education may not save humanity but it makes it a little bit more bearable. Many people Have nothing wrong with them You can’t give any opinion When there is nothing wrong Let alone multiple opinions Yet they can pay and get them regardless It’s actually more subjective Giving a medical opinion As the patient has to accept it to some Extent in order for a proper end to the consultation But perhaps there are similarities If they don’t like the opinion or advice you offer it leads to Issues and conflict Same as when forum sisters Argue over show opinions!! Anyway happy new year You are good natured long time member of the forum And don’t get all Agitated Like Some Others 😊
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Dec 29, 2017 0:58:27 GMT
You really think an opinion on a show is akin to an opinion on someone's health? All those years of training and graft and you want to get lumped in with someone saying what they felt when watching something? EDIT: Also, education may not save humanity but it makes it a little bit more bearable. Many people Have nothing wrong with them You can’t give any opinion When there is nothing wrong Let alone multiple opinions Yet they can pay and get them regardless It’s actually more subjective Giving a medical opinion As the patient has to accept it But perhaps there are similarities If they don’t like the opinion or advice you offer it leads to Issues and conflict Same as when forum sisters Argue over show opinions!! Anyway happy new year You are good natured long tile member of the forum And don’t get all Agitated Like Some Others 😊 Careful, you'll get a reputation for being nice. Should I go and get you a turkey that you can anonymously pass on to a poor family? And a happy new year to you too (and to one and all).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 1:03:41 GMT
Many people Have nothing wrong with them You can’t give any opinion When there is nothing wrong Let alone multiple opinions Yet they can pay and get them regardless It’s actually more subjective Giving a medical opinion As the patient has to accept it But perhaps there are similarities If they don’t like the opinion or advice you offer it leads to Issues and conflict Same as when forum sisters Argue over show opinions!! Anyway happy new year You are good natured long tile member of the forum And don’t get all Agitated Like Some Others 😊 Careful, you'll get a reputation for being nice. Should I go and get you a turkey that you can anonymously pass on to a poor family? And a happy new year to you too (and to one and all). Goose I prefer 😋
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 1:07:18 GMT
I quite enjoyed The Suicide. Again, it was from a fairly new writer and I know I am repeating myself, but how else are they to gain the experience? Playwrights don't just pop out from nowhere: they have to be nurtured. In the last couple of years some of the best and most challenging theatre experiences I have had have been at the NT - The Flick, Sarah Kane's Cleansed (directed by Katie Mitchell), People Places and Things (which transferred to the West End where it had a very successful run), Barbershop Chronicles, Consent (although I didn't like this quite as much as critics and other theatregoers seemed to), Close to the Bone. I'll take any of these plays over "My Fair Lady" any day.
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Post by tributary on Dec 29, 2017 9:46:11 GMT
Point of Information - Norris is the first non-Oxbridge AD in over forty years (non-Cambridge in fact). A certain type of person doesn't like that sort of thing, lowers the tone of the place. EDIT: Forum was dire, just appalling, Ed Hall screwed up Once in a Lifetime in the Olivier as well. My Fair Lady was solid but no greater than scores of West End musicals then and since, His Dark Materials was a stunning design in search of a script that stopped to think rather than just plot, plot, plot. Measure for Measure wasn't Complicite at their best, for that look to Mnemonic, Diappearing Number, Master & Margarita etc. Poor taste overall, only War Horse is worthy of being in a best of list over that period of time. Are you suggesting that people don’t like Norris because he’s non-Oxbridge? I think that’s a bit of a stretch, given that the whole conversation has been about how weak his programme is.
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Post by profquatermass on Dec 29, 2017 10:32:56 GMT
I quite enjoyed The Suicide. Again, it was from a fairly new writer and I know I am repeating myself, but how else are they to gain the experience? Playwrights don't just pop out from nowhere: they have to be nurtured. In the last couple of years some of the best and most challenging theatre experiences I have had have been at the NT - The Flick, Sarah Kane's Cleansed (directed by Katie Mitchell), People Places and Things (which transferred to the West End where it had a very successful run), Barbershop Chronicles, Consent (although I didn't like this quite as much as critics and other theatregoers seemed to), Close to the Bone. I'll take any of these plays over "My Fair Lady" any day. New writers can get experience at the Royal Court, the Bush, Hampstead, the Arts, Soho, the Orange Tree, the Finborough or any of the other theatres in London whose funding depends on them producing a certain percentage of new writing. it doesn't *have* to be at the National
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 10:42:55 GMT
Depends what they're writing though. So many new plays are two- to four-handers, but it would be very boring for the future of theatre if that's where we stuck. And a two- to four-hander will fit in just about anywhere, but it's nice to know we have the NT for plays that would be simply too big for the Bush or Royal Court or Hampstead.
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Post by profquatermass on Dec 29, 2017 11:33:31 GMT
Depends what they're writing though. So many new plays are two- to four-handers, but it would be very boring for the future of theatre if that's where we stuck. And a two- to four-hander will fit in just about anywhere, but it's nice to know we have the NT for plays that would be simply too big for the Bush or Royal Court or Hampstead. Indeed but you don't expect the main stage of the Olivier to be given over to a new play by a new writer with a cast of dozens. Oh wait, it was called St George and the Dragon and we all know how well that went...
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Post by stevemar on Dec 29, 2017 11:43:03 GMT
At the risk of changing the direction of the thread, other than "go now" and "get some decent new writers", what notes would you give Mr Norris to improve his performance in 2018?
It seems that the main issues have been on the Olivier Stage - based on feedback here and the critics, I made the unprecedented move of exchanging tickets for Common, Salome and St George. So, I can't comment specifically on those shows. There have been some notable successes - Follies, Angels in America, (great new writing with) Beginning, and to a lesser extent Mosquitoes and Consent, but I agree three apparent duds in a row leaves Mr Norris exposed. As a stopgap perhaps he could bring back his excellent adaptation of Festen from the Almeida?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 11:54:04 GMT
I have seen every single show at the NT Since 2004 or so And many prior to this Surely you mean you've seen half of every single show at the Nash . . ?
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Dec 29, 2017 12:01:51 GMT
Point of Information - Norris is the first non-Oxbridge AD in over forty years (non-Cambridge in fact). A certain type of person doesn't like that sort of thing, lowers the tone of the place. EDIT: Forum was dire, just appalling, Ed Hall screwed up Once in a Lifetime in the Olivier as well. My Fair Lady was solid but no greater than scores of West End musicals then and since, His Dark Materials was a stunning design in search of a script that stopped to think rather than just plot, plot, plot. Measure for Measure wasn't Complicite at their best, for that look to Mnemonic, Diappearing Number, Master & Margarita etc. Poor taste overall, only War Horse is worthy of being in a best of list over that period of time. Are you suggesting that people don’t like Norris because he’s non-Oxbridge? I think that’s a bit of a stretch, given that the whole conversation has been about how weak his programme is. Bit of a dig at Parsley, which he responded to as expected! On 'Forum' vs Norris - there is measurable success and there is opinion; your opinion of Norris appears not to be backed up by audience numbers across the building and its finances (facts), my opinion of Forum is not backed up by a number of critics (other people's opinions). Having different opinions is one thing, creating alternative facts is another. I seem to recall that De Jongh was, among some others, of the same opinion as me but that's all long past now. Sam Kelly was the only one who I thought really got the old music hall/vaudeville style. If people saw the Nathan Lane revival they would have see the difference, delirium as opposed to 'modified rapture'. It hadn't been seen in London for twenty years or so though.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 12:04:56 GMT
Honest question echoing that of stevemar above- what DOES Rufus need to do? Or which AD does he need to emulate? So far there’s a lot of “he’s rubbish” and not a lot of “what I’d like to see is” Personally I don’t have a strong opinion on his tenure thus far- other than it’s too soon to make a final judgment. But those who don’t like what he’s done who or what would you put in it’s place?
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Dec 29, 2017 12:12:20 GMT
At the risk of changing the direction of the thread, other than "go now" and "get some decent new writers", what notes would you give Mr Norris to improve his performance in 2018? It seems that the main issues have been on the Olivier Stage - based on feedback here and the critics, I made the unprecedented move of exchanging tickets for Common, Salome and St George. So, I can't comment specifically on those shows. There have been some notable successes - Follies, Angels in America, (great new writing with) Beginning, and to a lesser extent Mosquitoes and Consent, but I agree three apparent duds in a row leaves Mr Norris exposed. As a stopgap perhaps he could bring back his excellent adaptation of Festen from the Almeida? Continue what I see to be an excellent development in bringing in productions from regional theatres. I'd advise him to not flood the Olivier with revivals and adaptations but this very argument may already have stymied that. On an organisational level I'd suggest that he revamps the dramaturgy department, they don't seem to have done their job well assisting the writers and directors in the Olivier (maybe because it's been so long that nobody is around who can remember what a successful new play there needs).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 12:17:17 GMT
Honest question echoing that of stevemar above- what DOES Rufus need to do? Or which AD does he need to emulate? So far there’s a lot of “he’s rubbish” and not a lot of “what I’d like to see is” Personally I don’t have a strong opinion on his tenure thus far- other than it’s too soon to make a final judgment. But those who don’t like what he’s done who or what would you put in it’s place? More hotties. With or without nudity but preferably with. Tom Bateman. More of those jolly restoration comedies. More musicals with tap routines and kick lines. And staircases. A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum. More Jonny Bailey. More farces. 'Whoops There Go My Bloomers', that sort of thing. More nudity. More Tom Bateman. More things with glitter cannons and things falling from the sky (except the roof of course). The Boy From Oz. Bring Back Jennifer Ehle. Marc Elliott. More plays about the gayers. And I'm still waiting on that Gigi transfer. That should be a good start. When I take over, Rufus is going to eat poop and collapse. Take that nemesis.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 12:28:03 GMT
Honest question echoing that of stevemar above- what DOES Rufus need to do? Or which AD does he need to emulate? So far there’s a lot of “he’s rubbish” and not a lot of “what I’d like to see is” Personally I don’t have a strong opinion on his tenure thus far- other than it’s too soon to make a final judgment. But those who don’t like what he’s done who or what would you put in it’s place? Dominic Cooke in charge With close help From Katie Mitchell Natalie Abrahami Indu Rubasingham Martin Crimp Paulette Randall Kathy Burke And occasional guest input from Richard Jones Trevor Nunn Phyllida Lloyd Michael Grandage Deborah Warner Julie Taymor Robert Lepage Anna D Shapiro
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 13:50:48 GMT
Honest question echoing that of stevemar above- what DOES Rufus need to do? Or which AD does he need to emulate? So far there’s a lot of “he’s rubbish” and not a lot of “what I’d like to see is” Personally I don’t have a strong opinion on his tenure thus far- other than it’s too soon to make a final judgment. But those who don’t like what he’s done who or what would you put in it’s place? Dominic Cooke in charge With close help From Katie Mitchell Natalie Abrahami Indu Rubasingham Martin Crimp Paulette Randall Kathy Burke And occasional guest input from Richard Jones Trevor Nunn Phyllida Lloyd Michael Grandage Deborah Warner Julie Taymor Robert Lepage Anna D Shapiro I may be slightly off but (other than Abrahami) this is a list of directors (and Martin Crimp) all over the age of 50. There must surely be some younger directors that deserve a call-up under the Parsley regime; I think there'd be some back-biting if not...
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Post by Jon on Dec 29, 2017 14:02:46 GMT
I suspect The Ryan regime would end in multiple complaints and restraining orders from having to perform nude on or off stage..... and not doing any new work or series or revivals of classics that aren’t comedies wouldn’t be good either
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