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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 1, 2017 19:50:48 GMT
Hytner leaves the NT and works to get the new Bridge Theatre up and running - no ACE funding for that as far as I can see
Rice leaves the Globe and gets £2 million for a company that didn't exist until less than a fortnight before the deadline for applications.
I can understand that certain parts of the Arts community will want to rally round and support her through what has clearly been a difficult time for her professionally and personally. But this funding decision doesn't feel right to many others.
I could have understood some initial seed funding being made available to get Wise Children up and running - allowing it to develop from a website into an actual theatre company. But granting NPO status after 9 days of existence is a very questionable decision by ACE.
I am, as yet, unclear as to how Wise Children will differ from Kneehigh - other than being directly under Rice's control.
ACE still haven't really provided any clear justification for their decision. They need to do so - and quickly - to adequately address the genuine concerns that have been raised.
Fans of Rice's work will, of course, applaud the prospect of her new company. But the current discontent surrounding the project is not going to help it get off on the right foot - so to speak.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Aug 1, 2017 22:14:23 GMT
Kneehigh is under Mike Shepherd's control. He's been there after setting the company up nearly forty years ago, occasionally with others at the helm such as Rice and the sadly departed Bill Mitchell. It is his company, he can do what he wants with it, Rice's productions made the company internationally successful and I imagine that he wants to build on that but under his sole leadership. EDIT: The application appears to have been the work of Rice and Allegra Galvin who seems to be a rising creative force. www.ispa.org/news/255266/Meet-Allegra-Galvin-British-2013-2016-ISPA-Fellow.htm
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Post by Honoured Guest on Aug 2, 2017 0:25:16 GMT
came cap in hand to the taxpayer again thus squeezing out younger directors actively needing support - another middle-aged bed-blocker keeping the younger generation out. "Wise Children will commit to the training of a new generation of theatre artists." One of the most distinctive aspects of Wise Children is that its apprenticeship scheme, which will be fed by a training school offering intensive learning modules, will do exactly what you say it won't! www.wisechildren.co.uk/sign-up.php#page/6
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Post by Jan on Aug 2, 2017 7:41:47 GMT
came cap in hand to the taxpayer again thus squeezing out younger directors actively needing support - another middle-aged bed-blocker keeping the younger generation out. "Wise Children will commit to the training of a new generation of theatre artists." One of the most distinctive aspects of Wise Children is that its apprenticeship scheme, which will be fed by a training school offering intensive learning modules, will do exactly what you say it won't! www.wisechildren.co.uk/sign-up.php#page/6I agree she knows what to write to get funding, but of course ACE will have guided her in that. Wasn't aware she'd never run a company before the Globe, thought Kneehigh was hers. The Old Vic part in this is interesting, they get no ACE support generally but now are getting some by proxy - helps their finances a bit.
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Post by Jan on Aug 2, 2017 7:44:32 GMT
What exactly is the purpose of funding if it isn't to support newer less proven companies. If she is so proven and safe then why does she need public money at all ? If you would remove funding from the National, RSC etc, then that is consistent, if destructive. Do you really want funding removed from all flagship organisations? No that would be too extreme, just reviewing the list I'd remove funding from about 75% of the flagship organisations and distribute the money far more widely.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 10:42:25 GMT
So someone has made a Freedom of Information request and Emma Rice has published Wise Children's NPO application to the Arts Council online for those who might be interested. That fACE
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 17, 2017 13:40:51 GMT
So someone has made a Freedom of Information request and Emma Rice has published Wise Children's NPO application to the Arts Council online for those who might be interested. That fACEThere is a lot to digest in all of that. More than I am willing to plough through whilst in holiday. But it is clear that a number of significant risks were identified. Whether they are equivalent to those of more established companies remains to be seen. But it still looks like a leap the dark
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Post by kathryn on Aug 17, 2017 15:23:45 GMT
What immediately strikes me is what seems like very firm plans for 2-3 month residencies at established venues like The Old Vic, The National and The RSC, a limited domestic touring schedule (up to 4 venues for up to 3 weeks each) and quite vague plans for actual work happening in the South West, despite a plan to have their administrative base there and partner with the Bristol Old Vic.
The company is certainly going to be spending as much time outside the South West as in it. Even if it does revolutionise regional touring, it seems odd that the money is coming from the South West's pot.
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Post by lynette on Aug 17, 2017 16:23:36 GMT
Reads like a creative writing spoof exercise. How many meaningless expressions can you fit in? And all based on Emma Rice. What happens if she decides to change direction, emigrate or whatever? Or is this her salary? In which case she can go on writing stuff like this for ever.
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Post by Honoured Guest on Aug 17, 2017 16:35:36 GMT
And all based on Emma Rice. What happens if she decides to change direction, emigrate or whatever? I refer you to the Risk Assessments.
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Aug 17, 2017 16:41:43 GMT
Bloody useful to anyone planning an ACE application though, ahem. *fires up the ol' CTRL C*
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Post by kathryn on Aug 17, 2017 16:43:49 GMT
Is it really though? Don't you have to be Emma Rice for it to work?
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Aug 17, 2017 16:53:47 GMT
Quick reactions. - Ooh, David Jubb is involved. - The training aspect would be a real draw here, similarly with residencies rather than tour stops and the possibilities to fill the mid scale touring gap. - There's quite a 'Joan Littlewood' feel to plans and aspirations. - Good approach to have the reader visualise what the company would bring. - Ticks all the boxes, these are people who know their way around having to work to such targets. - Big name approval included with quotes from across the theatre community, it's like being bombarded with energy. - 'British character and values'. Tick. - The development of creative space; with all recent developments in venue use, this is an important part of the conversation (also noticed Bea Minns, Punchdrunk designer, assisting in a capacity. Interesting). - Spelling canon as cannon, tut tut.... - Evidence based, it's not new it's built on past experience (key for a company newly named). - Training to challenge the middle class hegemony of current drama education (one of my own concerns). Living wage apprenticeships. Bretton Hall/Dartington closing etc. - On the commentary, the concerns raised revolve around the early stages nature of the company, the major risk being an untested business model.
Summary, you can easily see why this succeeded, very well put together, industry wide backing, inventive. The risks of a startup are clear but they did everything to show that this is built from an existing base.
Can I see some more please? NT? Punchdrunk?
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Post by Honoured Guest on Aug 17, 2017 17:03:59 GMT
Can I see some more please? NT? Punchdrunk? Hampstead Theatre!?
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Aug 17, 2017 17:20:38 GMT
Can I see some more please? NT? Punchdrunk? Hampstead Theatre!? Just looked at their what's on for the main stage. Prism, written and directed by Terry Johnson. Slaves of Solitude by Nicholas Wright, directed by Jonathan Kent. Cell Mates by Simon Gray, directed by Edward Hall. I mean, did they really not notice the issue(s) there? Did nobody at any point say 'hold on a minute, isn't this a bit, you know, male, or white, or old' (Hall is the youngest and he's my age, for crying out loud!)
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Post by martin1965 on Aug 17, 2017 17:33:16 GMT
Reads like a creative writing spoof exercise. How many meaningless expressions can you fit in? And all based on Emma Rice. What happens if she decides to change direction, emigrate or whatever? Or is this her salary? In which case she can go on writing stuff like this for ever. Exactly! Jeez what a pile of old w*nk😱. Cannot see how this fits into anything the RSC might do in the future.
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Post by Jan on Aug 17, 2017 18:31:38 GMT
Reads like a creative writing spoof exercise. How many meaningless expressions can you fit in? And all based on Emma Rice. What happens if she decides to change direction, emigrate or whatever? Or is this her salary? In which case she can go on writing stuff like this for ever. Exactly! Jeez what a pile of old w*nk😱. Cannot see how this fits into anything the RSC might do in the future. What struck me was how white and middle-aged almost everyone mentioned is - Rufus and Greg and Tom and Matthew all rallying round - the entrenched theatre establishment looking after one of their own - it's saying the the way to get funding is to have got funding in the past. Surprisingly little on the economics of the whole thing, how the money will be spent. What it also reminded me of a bit was Adrian Noble's justification for leaving the Barbican - actors of old were vagabonds not shackled to any one place, free spirits, pitching their tent wherever they may, playing in different venues on different nights, going where they are needed ..... and similar romantic fantasies designed to appeal the the self-image theatrical folk have.
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Post by Honoured Guest on Aug 17, 2017 20:29:10 GMT
Cannot see how this fits into anything the RSC might do in the future. Presumably, a Wise Children residency at the RSC to create a production in the Swan (or possibly RST). Then it tours to three other UK venues for two to three weeks each and to maybe a couple of international venues. So the RSC gets seen much more widely. What is there not to see?
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Post by Jan on Aug 17, 2017 21:02:31 GMT
Cannot see how this fits into anything the RSC might do in the future. Presumably, a Wise Children residency at the RSC to create a production in the Swan (or possibly RST). Then it tours to three other UK venues for two to three weeks each and to maybe a couple of international venues. So the RSC gets seen much more widely. What is there not to see? Won't happen. They are resident at the Old Vic, that means they'll do nothing with the NT and RSC, it was only put in as a possibility to boost the application. Even ignoring the Old Vic, I wonder if the NT vs RSC rivalry is as fierce as it was in the past, probably not, however has any 3rd company ever worked with both within a 3-4 year period ?
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Post by Honoured Guest on Aug 17, 2017 21:07:34 GMT
Won't happen. They are resident at the Old Vic, that means they'll do nothing with the NT and RSC, it was only put in to boost the application. The application was for the four-year period 2018-22. The proposal is for one such residency each year. The Old Vic residency to create Wise Children is in the first year, 2018-19.
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Post by martin1965 on Aug 17, 2017 21:08:25 GMT
Presumably, a Wise Children residency at the RSC to create a production in the Swan (or possibly RST). Then it tours to three other UK venues for two to three weeks each and to maybe a couple of international venues. So the RSC gets seen much more widely. What is there not to see? Won't happen. They are resident at the Old Vic, that means they'll do nothing with the NT and RSC, it was only put in as a possibility to boost the application. Even ignoring the Old Vic, I wonder if the NT vs RSC rivalry is as fierce as it was in the past, probably not, however has any 3rd company ever worked with both within a 3-4 year period ? Seconded and carried! Whole application was pieintheskytastic!
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Post by Honoured Guest on Aug 17, 2017 21:21:49 GMT
I wonder if the NT vs RSC rivalry is as fierce as it was in the past, probably not, however has any 3rd company ever worked with both within a 3-4 year period ? Yes - Kneehigh 2006 Cymbeline (Kneehigh/RSC) Directed by Emma Rice 2007 A Matter of Life and Death (Kneehigh/NT) Directed by Emma Rice 2008 Don Juan (Kneehigh/RSC/Bristol Old Vic) Directed by Emma Rice
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Aug 17, 2017 22:05:49 GMT
I wonder if the NT vs RSC rivalry is as fierce as it was in the past, probably not, however has any 3rd company ever worked with both within a 3-4 year period ? Yes - Kneehigh 2006 Cymbeline (Kneehigh/RSC) Directed by Emma Rice 2007 A Matter of Life and Death (Kneehigh/NT) Directed by Emma Rice 2008 Don Juan (Kneehigh/RSC/Bristol Old Vic) Directed by Emma Rice Damn, you got in before me! Yes, it's very much something that Rice has led on, so, if it's in the plan, it'll probably happen. When you are, on the one hand, attacked for being too conservative and, on the other, for being too radical, you are left thinking that people just want to find fault in anything.
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Post by Honoured Guest on Aug 17, 2017 22:09:12 GMT
And attacked for making an excellent funding application! Looking glass times!
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 18, 2017 8:49:05 GMT
I am sorry but I think it is better to describe it as a successful application rather than an excellent one.
It is based on a considerable amount of wishful thinking with a very untested business plan and a very tenuous link to the South West.
Just because Rice achieved some critical success with Kneehigh does not mean that her new company will achieve the same. It also has to be remembered that other than Brief Encounter, her recent attempts at a broader popular success have not always worked.
Whatever the merits of Rice as a creative force, I cannot help but feel that Wise Children would not have received this level of support without the events surrounding her departure from The Globe.
She has her supporters and enthusiasts, that much is beyond question. But to make this level of public money available to a brand new company still seems open to doubt.
And ACE have yet to address these issues to the satisfaction of many.
Feeling sorry for someone who left a high profile role in a very difficult and public way is right. Giving two million quid to her new set up seems over generous. I would have absolutely supported an initial start up grant to test the new ideas and structures. But not NPO status at this level of funding.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Aug 18, 2017 8:55:52 GMT
I am sorry but I think it is better to describe it as a successful application rather than an excellent one. It is based on a considerable amount of wishful thinking with a very untested business plan and a very tenuous link to the South West. Just because Rice achieved some critical success with Kneehigh does not mean that her new company will achieve the same. It also has to be remembered that other than Brief Encounter, her recent attempts at a broader popular success have not always worked. Whatever the merits of Rice as a creative force, I cannot help but feel that Wise Children would not have received this level of support without the events surrounding her departure from The Globe. She has her supporters and enthusiasts, that much is beyond question. But to make this level of public money available to a brand new company still seems open to doubt. And ACE have yet to address these issues to the satisfaction of many. Feeling sorry for someone who left a high profile role in a very difficult and public way is right. Giving two million quid to her new set up seems over generous. I would have absolutely supported an initial start up grant to test the new ideas and structures. But not NPO status at this level of funding. Rebecca, Midsummer Night's Dream, Twelfth Night, Flying Lovers of Vitebsk (seeing it this weekend), The Wild Bride (my favourite of Kneehigh's shows). All popular, most of them wildly so. I really don't get this line of attack.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 18, 2017 9:21:29 GMT
None of my friends who saw Rebecca were in any way impressed by it. This is a group that includes many ardent Rice fans.
As regards her work produced at The Globe, I can only comment on her 'Dream' as that is the only one I saw. It was not a production that offered me any pleasure at all. The changes to the text were facile, the staging was over complicated and, for me, it was not a great piece of work. It showed a director who didn't trust the text to be funny enough for her and that is never a good start. There are many other directors who react in a similar fashion to Shakespeare and I call them out in the same way.
The Umbrellas of Cherbourg is what I had in mind as an example of an attempt by Rice and Kneehigh to attract a more mainstream audience. And it closed very quickly.
I have never denied the Rice has an appeal to certain audiences. I have also never questioned whether her style of work has a place in our theatrical landscape or indeed whether it warrants some ACE funding.
It is the decision to grant NPO status and £2 million over four years that I continue to question. Nothing I have read in the application or the associated documentation makes that decision any easier to understand or justify.
Raising questions about the ACE decision is not an attack on Rice.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Aug 18, 2017 11:49:40 GMT
I was hoping for a discussion on the facts, but all you did is relay feelings. Still, that seems to be the state of too much of our politics at the moment where feelings trump facts.
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Post by martin1965 on Aug 18, 2017 12:01:20 GMT
I was hoping for a discussion on the facts, but all you did is relay feelings. Still, that seems to be the state of too much of our politics at the moment where feelings trump facts. Youre on the wrong forum mate!
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Aug 18, 2017 12:16:48 GMT
You know, box office figures, number of performances and number of different venues. Gender and other mix percentages. There's actually quite a lot to go on.
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