43 posts
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Post by sayers500 on Jul 17, 2017 23:42:35 GMT
Quando Me'en Vo from La Boheme +1 for the Meistersinger quintet +1 Final trio for Der Rosenkavalier Take Good Care of yourself from Marguerite Opening doors from Merrily we roll along Ladies in their sensitivities from Sweeney Todd The frogs from The Frogs Company from Company Another winter in a summer town from Grey Gardens- a really simple countermelody that leaves me in tears every time The finale of Grand Hotel
Also thought that this technique has been used in plays quite a bit recently especially in Anatomy of a suicide, The Homosexuals guide to capitalism and socialism with a key to the scriptures and Angels in America.
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Post by tmesis on Jul 18, 2017 6:33:00 GMT
I'm on a roll...
Love the bit in Sound of Music where Maria and Von Trapp are getting married. Rogers has the Processional March playing (which with hindsight sounds quite John Williamsesque) and then the nuns come in singing How do you solve a Problem Like Maria? This is really clever as both tunes are exceptionally strong but utterly different and work effortlessly together with no hint of contrivance that you get in some composers' efforts.
Not quite so impressive, but still damn good is how Rogers combines the 'Do Me Me Me So So' tune with the 'When you know the Notes to Sing' bit in Do-re Mi.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jul 18, 2017 7:35:08 GMT
All the counterpoint from Cosi fan tutti - I absolutely adore the score. Mozart's finest
Make our garden grow has got to be the best from a 'musical' perspective
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 8:28:52 GMT
Does it have to be a combination of two previously heard songs in the score or can it be a specifically written piece of music with lots of people singing different melodies? It does not have to be of two previously heard songs, it just seems that in musical theatre the most significant use of counterpoint is with reoccurring musical themes to heighten emotion.
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Post by tmesis on Jul 18, 2017 8:42:06 GMT
All the counterpoint from Cosi fan tutti - I absolutely adore the score. Mozart's finest Make our garden grow has got to be the best from a 'musical' perspective I'm totally with you on Cosi, it's Mozart's most sublime opera and my own personal favourite. Act 1 is one spellbinding ensemble after another. Act 2 has more solo arias (he had to give in to the egos of his performers) but then in the finale there's the sublime canon, probably the greatest bit of counterpoint in all MT. From a MT point of view Mozart basically invented the contrapuntal ensemble (although he wouldn't have called it that.) Prior to that it was nearly always a succession of solo arias. So if you admire these moments in Sondheim, Berlin, Cy Coleman, Bernstein, Rogers et al; it all comes from Wolfgang.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 9:35:10 GMT
Quando Me'en Vo from La Boheme +1 for the Meistersinger quintet +1 Final trio for Der Rosenkavalier Take Good Care of yourself from Marguerite Opening doors from Merrily we roll along Ladies in their sensitivities from Sweeney Todd The frogs from The Frogs Company from Company Another winter in a summer town from Grey Gardens- a really simple countermelody that leaves me in tears every time The finale of Grand Hotel Also thought that this technique has been used in plays quite a bit recently especially in Anatomy of a suicide, The Homosexuals guide to capitalism and socialism with a key to the scriptures and Angels in America. Are these genuinely all your favourite CP moments or are you just listing every example of couterpoint you can think of? haha.
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Post by d'James on Jul 18, 2017 9:37:02 GMT
Does it have to be a combination of two previously heard songs in the score or can it be a specifically written piece of music with lots of people singing different melodies? It does not have to be of two previously heard songs, it just seems that in musical theatre the most significant use of counterpoint is with reoccurring musical themes to heighten emotion. Thank you.
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43 posts
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Post by sayers500 on Jul 18, 2017 10:38:38 GMT
Quando Me'en Vo from La Boheme +1 for the Meistersinger quintet +1 Final trio for Der Rosenkavalier Take Good Care of yourself from Marguerite Opening doors from Merrily we roll along Ladies in their sensitivities from Sweeney Todd The frogs from The Frogs Company from Company Another winter in a summer town from Grey Gardens- a really simple countermelody that leaves me in tears every time The finale of Grand Hotel Also thought that this technique has been used in plays quite a bit recently especially in Anatomy of a suicide, The Homosexuals guide to capitalism and socialism with a key to the scriptures and Angels in America. Are these genuinely all your favourite CP moments or are you just listing every example of couterpoint you can think of? haha. For my music GCSE composition a few years ago I had to create a song from a musical and used counterpoint as a jumping off point. To be honest, any song with that technique is likely to become my favourite song in a musical.
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Post by mrtumnus on Jul 18, 2017 12:34:10 GMT
A couple of good One Day More political parodies. linkUpdated with Donald link
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Post by paulbrownsey on Jul 18, 2017 14:47:48 GMT
I find nothing as thrilling as a bunch of characters singing over each other and independently expressing exactly what's going on in their mind. It has to be one of my favorite musical theatre devices, normally done as an Act I finale to wrap things up while ticking the box on so many characters sub-plots. Here's a list of my favorite. Curious what yours may be.. *Les Miserables (the mother of all counterpoint Act I Finales): One Day More *Les Miserables: Confrontation *Kiss of the Spiderwpman: Anything For Him *Hamilton: Non-Stop *Book of Mormon: Man Up *Great Comet: Letters (kind of) *West Side Story: America *Little Night Music: A Weekend in the Country *Chess: Model of Decorum and Tranquility ..any more?
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Post by paulbrownsey on Jul 18, 2017 14:49:28 GMT
I find nothing as thrilling as a bunch of characters singing over each other and independently expressing exactly what's going on in their mind. It has to be one of my favorite musical theatre devices, normally done as an Act I finale to wrap things up while ticking the box on so many characters sub-plots. Here's a list of my favorite. Curious what yours may be.. *Les Miserables (the mother of all counterpoint Act I Finales): One Day More *Les Miserables: Confrontation *Kiss of the Spiderwpman: Anything For Him *Hamilton: Non-Stop *Book of Mormon: Man Up *Great Comet: Letters (kind of) *West Side Story: America *Little Night Music: A Weekend in the Country *Chess: Model of Decorum and Tranquility ..any more? The merging of "Now", "Soon" and Later" in A Little Night Music; especially in the Original London Cast recording (Joss Ackland et al).
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Post by paulbrownsey on Jul 18, 2017 14:54:05 GMT
Irving Berlin was good at this. I'm surprised no-one has mentioned "You're Just In Love" from Call Me Madam (which reportedly required something like six encores on the first night) and "Play A Simple Melody" from (inter alia) There's No Business Like Show Business:
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Post by tmesis on Jul 18, 2017 15:42:49 GMT
Irving Berlin was good at this. I'm surprised no-one has mentioned "You're Just In Love" from Call Me Madam (which reportedly required something like six encores on the first night) and "Play A Simple Melody" from (inter alia) There's No Business Like Show Business: I mentioned them on page 1.
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Post by Mr Snow on Jul 18, 2017 15:47:24 GMT
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Post by tmesis on Jul 18, 2017 15:52:55 GMT
The Loesser is a great example and it is, more or less, a proper fugue.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jul 18, 2017 16:15:26 GMT
Gilbert and Sullivan used these techniques in many of the Savoy Operas:
Pirates of Penzance has How Beautifully Blue The Sky and When the Foeman Patience has In a doleful train which develops into a great double chorus Yeomen of the Guard opening of Act 2
Just to name a few
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Post by Kenneth_C on Jul 18, 2017 16:43:52 GMT
I think my absolute favorite is "Kiss Me/Ladies in Their Sensitivities" from Sweeney Todd. It's rapturous, suspenseful, and features one of the cleverest uses of counterpoint I can think of:
Johanna: Even as it does not matter that I still don't know your name... Anthony: Anthony! Judge: Todd... Beadle: Todd. Johanna: Anthony... Judge: Todd, eh?
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Post by Dawnstar on Jul 18, 2017 17:27:38 GMT
I love Howard Goodall's frequent use of counterpoint. My favourite instance out of those shows of his that I've seen is probably the Act 1 finale from The Kissing Dance but all the others (The Hired Man, A Winter's Tale, The Dreaming & Girlfriends) have beautiful examples too.
Another vote for Now/Soon/Later from ALNM. When they blend it's glorious, especially the moment when Frederik is singing "Now I still want and/or love you" while Anne & Heinrik are singing long notes. (Sorry, that's probably a terrible explanation, I'm no musician.)
I think most of my favourite operatic examples have already been mentioned (I would like the Rosenkavalier trio to be the last sound I head before death I love it so much) apart from the finale of Ariadne Auf Naxos where the nymphs provide beautiful counterpoint to Ariadne & Bacchus' love duet. Yes, I really love my Strauss!
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Post by orchestrator on Jul 18, 2017 19:14:57 GMT
I think my absolute favorite is "Kiss Me/Ladies in Their Sensitivities" from Sweeney Todd. It's rapturous, suspenseful, and features one of the cleverest uses of counterpoint I can think of: Johanna: Even as it does not matter that I still don't know your name... Anthony: Anthony! Judge: Todd... Beadle: Todd. Johanna: Anthony... Judge: Todd, eh?Is anyone else bothered at all by the story of the Beadle and the Judge at the start of the Quartet? The Beadle has persuaded the Judge to go to this fancy new barber in town very carefully not saying his name, the judge ends the dialogue with “Take me to him” and off they go (despite the trip making the Beadle late for his daughter’s birthday). Anthony and Johanna resume their naive barely-listening dialogue and then the Beadle kicks off the counterpoint duet with “The name is Tooooooooooooooood”. And as soon as he starts “Todd” the Judge joins in with “Todd” even though the Beadle hasn’t finished the name. I know. I should get out more.
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Post by crabtree on Jul 18, 2017 21:20:40 GMT
Hallo and I'm loving this informative civilised discussion. as it happens I am putting together a concert based not so much on counterpoint but around Quartets, mainly from opera, but would love to include a G&S, a Lehar, A Sondheim, a Porter, a Coward, and a Kander and ebb - what are your favourite ones. Thanks so much.
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Post by notmymuse on Jul 19, 2017 7:08:15 GMT
A little house from half a sixpence. Something happened and Finally to know from death takes a holiday (actually, seems Yeston uses this a lot
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jul 19, 2017 9:43:14 GMT
The final moments of the proglouge from the film version of Into the Woods
I wish (see what I did there) some of the film elements were incorporated into a new stage version. The film was great in condensing some of the material but please put back No more
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Post by shep94 on Jul 21, 2017 2:15:28 GMT
What about 'Wandering Child' from Phantom I really like that one.
Also 'You will not touch him' from Miss Saigon
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Post by paulbrownsey on Jul 23, 2017 11:35:30 GMT
And then there's "Mums and Dads" in Blitz!, where three tunes in the style of children's playground songs get combined.
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Post by Dawnstar on Jul 23, 2017 12:34:08 GMT
Having seen Candide again on Friday night I need to add that to the counterpoint list.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2017 18:33:05 GMT
I think there's a few actually in Groundhog Day, but I like the one in 'Stuck'
PHIL One: I’m still sleeping and this I’m just dreaming it Two: it’s a prank and Everyone’s in on it Three: it’s a flashback from when I was twenty and ate magic mushrooms and thought I was Aquaman Four: it’s some kind of reality show Five: it’s amnesia Six: it’s a stroke I think I am losing my...
(on top of)
DOCTORS/EXPERTS I don’t even know if I Believe what I’m saying, This guy is clearly nuts But he is deperate and He’s paying, statistically He might as well be sitting Home and praying for all The good that I can do, I don’t have a frickin clue What I’m doing Though there are things That we just don’t know, It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t Give giving an answer a go You just have to open your Mind
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Post by musicallady on Jul 23, 2017 18:48:43 GMT
Theres a nice one in Blondel between Blondel, Fiona and King John.
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Post by dazzlair on Jul 24, 2017 14:43:55 GMT
My all time favourite counterpoint song:
It's Only Love/Bring On The Night from Metropolis.
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Post by musicallady on Jul 24, 2017 14:58:32 GMT
My all time favourite counterpoint song: It's Only Love/Bring On The Night from Metropolis. I forgot about that one.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2017 18:15:52 GMT
Don't think anyone has mentioned the end of 'What is This Feeling?' in Wicked yet. It's always my highlight of the show - aside from the melody lines, the arrangement is very rich & it's a smart little concept for a song.
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