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Post by Jon on Apr 17, 2019 15:24:15 GMT
I'll be curious to see how soon we get one of the Game of Thrones spin-offs/prequels? I'm thinking 2021 because they're only casting for the pilot of The Long Night at the moment and HBO takes a while to decide on whether to greenlight a series.
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Post by crowblack on Apr 17, 2019 15:43:22 GMT
if the series ever said that only Targaryens could fly them I think thus far the implication in the (streamlined?) TV version is that it's something peculiar to her / her bloodline - I went back and watched the first episode last week where they sow a lot of the seeds and she gets into a boiling bathtub while maids go 'it's too hot!' or words to that effect. At the time I assumed she was self-harming. There was something going on in that scene last series where Jon is able to pet the dragons too. As for script consistency, Arya had a job getting into Winterfell last season but the arch-enemy Jaime just trotted in with his hood up this week. I know they've got an army camped outside but they've now got Westeros' equivalent of a global summit going on in there and security has gone to pot.
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Post by crowblack on Apr 17, 2019 15:46:29 GMT
Game of Thrones spin-offs/prequels? I think Amazon are filming their LOTR series this summer too (prequel / Silmarillion suff?), and there are other fantasy series in the offing, though the Jack Thorne-scripted Sandman project has apparently been cancelled.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Apr 17, 2019 17:41:50 GMT
we're not exactly in a world where rules have to apply We are, hence all that bloodlines and Bran stuff! She survived the fire because of her bloodline, he was brought back by the red witch lady and has now found out he's heir to the throne. What about her brothers bloodline? And the Night King is a Targaryan also as he can ride a dragon?
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Post by crowblack on Apr 17, 2019 17:53:51 GMT
He was killed off before there were any dragons on the scene in the series - they were just eggs back then. I don't know if there's going to be a big reveal about the Nigh King's identity, but he seems to be the reanimating force behind the undead army or whatever so as their god/maker figure I presume that means he can also command the dragon he brought back to 'life' (gosh this conversation has got much more engaged than I was expecting!)
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Apr 17, 2019 18:05:13 GMT
He was killed off before there were any dragons on the scene in the series - they were just eggs back then. I don't know if there's going to be a big reveal about the Nigh King's identity, but he seems to be the reanimating force behind the undead army or whatever so as their god/maker figure I presume that means he can also command the dragon he brought back to 'life' (gosh this conversation has got much more engaged than I was expecting!) Not the Dragons thing but the heat
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2019 19:54:23 GMT
It’s established in the show that Targaryens had dragon blood and that’s the reason Dany can survive the heat - in the TV show she was shown having a scalding bath before she had dragons. She also claims her brother wasn’t a dragon because he didn’t survive molten gold on his head.
The other dragon riders aren’t mentioned in the TV series (and barely in the books). In the TV show the only person to have ever shown any knowledge of dragons is Tyrion - fleetingly - as he liked to read books about them. He calls them intelligent creatures and drunkenly went for a chat with two of them and freed them of their chains. Flattery seems to work.
My personal guess is it’s entirely up to the dragon whether they let someone climb up on them. Frankly, no one has tried it except Dany and she only started in season 6. The only way Dany will ever believe Jon is Targaryen though is if she burns him and he survives.
So I suspect Jon Snow is going to be on the receiving end of ‘Dracarys’ at some point soon.
In terms of the Night King, I wouldn’t read too much into the fact he was riding them - he controls the dead, and the dragon died. Also, it’s highly unlikely he is Targaryen as he was created millennia before Targaryens stepped foot in Westeros - both established facts in the TV show.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Apr 22, 2019 2:05:51 GMT
Well that was different.
Clearly a set-up episode to prepare us for The Battle of Winterfell - so not heavy on action but plenty of relationship development/exploration
Loved the Knights round the fire sequence - Brienne moment was wonderful
Didn't quite expect Arya and Gendry to do that at this point - but it sort of made sense
Dany's face when everything was explained together - again good
A little too much of making sure everyone got their moment - but that is understandable as many of them won't have moments to have shortly!
I suspect this season might be one best binge-watched - each episode flowing into the next
At least we didn't get a roller-coaster ride this week
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Post by crowblack on Apr 22, 2019 2:19:34 GMT
not heavy on action but plenty of relationship development/exploration I liked it, a Henry V night before Agincourt episode - felt a bit like fanfiction with favourite characters / relationships, and I mean that as a compliment.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Apr 22, 2019 2:31:28 GMT
I can see what you mean - I just wonder whether we could have done with episode 2/3 being merged so we get 30 minutes of build up going straight into the battle.
As has just been pointed out on one of the YouTube discussions, we are 1/3 of the way through this final series and we are lacking in action.
I am not a huge fan of the battle episodes as they tend to be noisy (both in terms of sound and visuals) - but I think we need to move things on now. 2 hours of set-up is a bit too much. I know we need to be reminded of the characters and their relationships and that we have to get the key reveal out of the way - but 2 hours of it might be a bit too much for me.
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Post by crowblack on Apr 22, 2019 9:25:57 GMT
2 hours of it might be a bit too much for me. Yes, though I liked this episode. I thought last week's was a bit meh - managed to feel both slow and rushed - but agree, we could have had an episode and a half of build up and then an initial skirmish with a popular character death as an appetiser, or a feature length build up doing the fan service of meeting and tying up relationships then launch into battle with episode 2, though fansite rumour has it the battle took ages to film so might take up more than an episode, even at the longer length. The BBC Les Miserables did the barricades over two episodes, with Mabeuf and Eponine's deaths at the end of the first half and that worked well.
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Post by peggs on Apr 22, 2019 9:40:23 GMT
With so many reunion/touching scenes between people there's a whole lot of scope for an awful lot of them to now die in the next episode.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Apr 22, 2019 10:09:17 GMT
Continuing the HenryV comparisons, wonder what the reaction to a similar conclusion would be, we get a roll call of the dead which consists primarily of a list of insignificant supporting characters.
On reflection the build up has been overlong, could have been consolidated to one snappier episode, not sure how the next four episodes can be stretched out as likely to be made up of two major battles the dead next week and the final quest for the throne.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2019 13:54:12 GMT
Shall we start the death pool for next week? Grey Worm's not going to last long, not if he's dumb enough to tempt the narrative by making lovely future plans.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Apr 22, 2019 14:04:36 GMT
I think we need someone bigger than Greyworm to die to have real emotional impact. The Unsullied have been trained to be ready for death - so losing him wouldn't bother me in the slightest.
It needs someone from one of the big families to die to really kick things off. Young Lady Mormont would be a start. I don't think Jorah has much longer to go. So bye bye to that family
I don't think we will lose a Stark. Can't see a Lannister going either. Sam/Gilly/Baby - safe for now. Varys - I don't think he will go at this stage (I suspect he needs to meet up with Melisandre at least one more time)
Someone is likely to die twice - that could be Greyworm. Killed, brought back as a Wight and then killed again. I think Ed and Beric might also be candidates for that role - given the conversation with Jon about the last one living burning the dead
Brienne dying in the arms of her beloved might be the real emotional punch
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Post by crowblack on Apr 22, 2019 14:11:35 GMT
tempt the narrative by making lovely future plans. Yep, toast - unless it's a twist. Tyrion talked so much about his impending death he might make it, unless that's also a twist. Sadly, I think Ser Brienne won't make it after that bit of happiness. Jon and Dany to survive this battle, but Dany kills Jon later in the series, leaving Arya and blacksmith chap last toffs standing on Iron Throne. Arya and Alfie Allen buy Bran enough time to destroy Night King, Bran and Alfie Allen also dying (or whatever Obi Wan Kenobi variant on dying Bran will undergo). I thought Sam Tarly would make it to the end, Sam Gamgee style, but his story's got darker and he has a baby son called Sam so maybe he too is toast (ooh, maybe he could kill Dany if she kills Jon!). I think Jaime will make it long enough to have showdown with sister.
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Post by crowblack on Apr 22, 2019 14:12:53 GMT
I don't think we will lose a Stark. Sansa? And Bran maybe...he and Night King cancelling each other out somehow.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Apr 22, 2019 14:24:40 GMT
I think Sansa has earned the right to survive a bit longer. Bran - again I think he will survive this battle. His seer powers probably still have a role to play.
We still have one more big battle after this one - so there is still time to off a few more
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Post by crowblack on Apr 22, 2019 14:39:46 GMT
Yes, she doesn't yet know about Jon's true parentage and could be another spanner in the works of that 'couple'. I think Bran might go though, if this is the defeat of the white walkers, because I don't really see what role he/ the red tree magicky fairy first people type stuff would have in the more human-world business of the Iron Throne fight which will probably (?) take up the last episodes.
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Post by kathryn on Apr 22, 2019 14:43:29 GMT
Re: Dragonriding - Targaryen blood definitely required, established in the books. Can be half-bloods/bastards though. The books haven’t got as far as the Night King getting a dragon yet but numerous hints have been dropped through various tales/legends that he is a Targ.
Jon being able to climb on board a dragon without ending up crispy should be a really startling revelation for Dany, but the show has for some reason ignored that. Oh, and Targs are not fireproof generally - The show has exaggerated that for Dany because it looks cool to have fires shooting up around her on screen, book Dany would definitely burn. It was the magic of the first dragons being born in centuries that protected her from their birth pyre, not her Targ blood. Historically Targaryens have died from fire, including from dragon fire.
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Post by crowblack on Apr 22, 2019 15:17:32 GMT
A neat suggestion in a Twitter thread - can the Night King raise the dead in the crypt?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2019 15:44:09 GMT
The crypt has been WAY too talked about as a safe place for that *not* to be the case.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Apr 22, 2019 15:49:40 GMT
the people in the crypt are all long time dead - there is nothing other the bones and whilst we have seen just skeletons outside the tree of the Three Eyed Raven, they came from under the earth. The wights tend to be recently dead and still have some flesh
I am not sure whether the NK can raise just bones - we don't know enough of the lore.
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Post by kathryn on Apr 22, 2019 15:52:42 GMT
Don’t know if the crypt-dead will rise, but the crypt certainly is not going to be a safe place. Maybe we will finally find out what that line about ‘there must always be a Stark in Winterfell’ means.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2019 16:28:21 GMT
Brienne dying in the arms of her beloved might be the real emotional punch Who was the guy Brienne was running about with in yesterday’s episode? I didn’t remember him but he was clearly meant to be ‘somebody’?
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Post by couldileaveyou on Apr 22, 2019 16:46:52 GMT
Brienne dying in the arms of her beloved might be the real emotional punch Who was the guy Brienne was running about with in yesterday’s episode? I didn’t remember him but he was clearly meant to be ‘somebody’? Her squire Podrick?
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Post by peggs on Apr 22, 2019 17:41:26 GMT
Did wonder if Brienne had got her happy moment and therefore that's probably it and yes how can the crypts be safe, something of a deadend trap is it not? There's been theories about dead Starks being raised and fighting the living for ages but I don't really see the impact, after all the only Starks we actually know aren't buried there are they so don't you lose the impact if it's just some dead stranger? I do fear for little Lady Mormont if not only that she may be the coolest character in it. And surely Pod is gonna go, too nice to live.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Apr 22, 2019 17:46:05 GMT
I think we need someone bigger than Greyworm to die to have real emotional impact. The Unsullied have been trained to be ready for death - so losing him wouldn't bother me in the slightest. It needs someone from one of the big families to die to really kick things off. Young Lady Mormont would be a start. I don't think Jorah has much longer to go. So bye bye to that family I don't think we will lose a Stark. Can't see a Lannister going either. Sam/Gilly/Baby - safe for now. Varys - I don't think he will go at this stage (I suspect he needs to meet up with Melisandre at least one more time) Someone is likely to die twice - that could be Greyworm. Killed, brought back as a Wight and then killed again. I think Ed and Beric might also be candidates for that role - given the conversation with Jon about the last one living burning the dead Brienne dying in the arms of her beloved might be the real emotional punch Last week meh, this week my favourite ever episode. Better than Hardhome, Red Wedding and Battle on the Wall and Bastards. Even better than the Winds of Winter. If we are playing dead pool I am going for Theon, Brienne, Greyworm, Jorah, Davos, Beric Dondarion and … (wipes tear) Tormund. Could be Arya, Gendry but definitely Brann. Lots of the army of the dead, a few whites and maybe the Night King. Think Ghost survives and the remaining premier league superstars. Got a sneaky feeling Bronn is in next weeks episode
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Apr 22, 2019 17:48:10 GMT
I think we need someone bigger than Greyworm to die to have real emotional impact. The Unsullied have been trained to be ready for death - so losing him wouldn't bother me in the slightest. It needs someone from one of the big families to die to really kick things off. Young Lady Mormont would be a start. I don't think Jorah has much longer to go. So bye bye to that family I don't think we will lose a Stark. Can't see a Lannister going either. Sam/Gilly/Baby - safe for now. Varys - I don't think he will go at this stage (I suspect he needs to meet up with Melisandre at least one more time) Someone is likely to die twice - that could be Greyworm. Killed, brought back as a Wight and then killed again. I think Ed and Beric might also be candidates for that role - given the conversation with Jon about the last one living burning the dead Brienne dying in the arms of her beloved might be the real emotional punch Last week meh, this week my favourite ever episode. Better than Hardhome, Red Wedding and Battle on the Wall and Bastards. Even better than the Winds of Winter. If we are playing dead pool I am going for Theon, Brienne, Greyworm, Jorah, Davos, Beric Dondarion and … (wipes tear) Tormund. Could be Arya, Gendry but definitely Brann. Lots of the army of the dead, a few whites and maybe the Night King. Think Ghost survives and the remaining premier league superstars. Got a sneaky feeling Bronn is in next weeks episode For the killed twice... I'm going for Hodor
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Post by peggs on Apr 22, 2019 18:03:47 GMT
oh yes Theon must be a deaden now he's all redeemed though it then sucks to be Sansa but then it always really has. And yes i'd prob go with the suggested above, they've got to lose lots so think the second strings will go with maybe a surprise first string in there.
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