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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2018 13:49:18 GMT
The frocks are fabulous. They're so big I'm thinking of renting one as an Airbnb once Kelli has finished with them.
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Post by emj892 on Jun 25, 2018 14:04:44 GMT
Anybody able to post the list of orchestra players please? Oleanna : Conductor & MD: Stephen Ridley Assistant MD & Keyboard: Malcolm Forbes-Peckham Violin 1: Ali Gordon Violin 2: Tom Bott Viola & 2nd Cover Conductor: Michael Keelan Cello: Dom Pecheur Double Bass: Rory Dempsey Harp: Hugh Webb Percussion: Dom Sales Flute & Piccolo: Helen Wilson Oboe & Cor Anglais: Ilid Jones Clarinet & Flute: Steve Pierce Bassoon: Alex Callanan French Horn 1: John Davy French Horn 2: Ruth O'Reilly Trumpet 1: John Barclay Trumpet 2: Freddie Bols Trombone: Phil Judge
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jun 25, 2018 14:15:42 GMT
At those prices I want to hear a large orchestra that or see the greedy producers fail
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Post by sf on Jun 25, 2018 14:40:28 GMT
...and OK, from the list posted it's more than 14. It's 17 plus the conductor, which is the same number Lincoln Center's 'South Pacific' used when it toured in this country (there were more musicians in London). That's presumably the minimum number of warm bodies needed to deliver the original orchestrations; to my ears, the orchestra at that 'South Pacific' sounded thin, which means this will too, because there's a certain sound that you simply cannot replicate with just two violins and one viola.
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Post by argon on Jun 25, 2018 14:45:19 GMT
Do we know when TAKAO OSAWA will be on for the King
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Post by poster J on Jun 25, 2018 15:21:58 GMT
I'm a musician, I know full well what the difference is, and I also know that what I heard on Friday night sitting in the Grand Circle of the Palladium sounded perfectly fine, and although 29 musicians would obviously have created a different sound, the 14 who were playing were more than adequate.
But that's the point: at these prices, "more than adequate" isn't good enough. I've seen/heard enough musical revivals over the years that I know perfectly well what it'll sound like with 14 players in the pit. The revival at Curve a few years ago had fewer than that; at regional theatre prices, in a smaller house, I'm OK with it. To present the show in the Palladium, with premium seats costing up to £175, is just cheap. At those prices - not that I'd have paid £175, but everything other than the back third of the upper circle is at least £49 - I want the real deal, not a cut-down imitation of it. Producers get away with it because audiences and critics don't challenge them on it. We should, because cutting the orchestra back significantly alters the experience.
I sat second row of the Grand Circle and paid only £15 for a very good view and sound - the deals and decent prices were there if you were organised enough, so your statement about prices is simply wrong. If you're expecting world-class musicians and a full orchestra, then you pretty much have to stick to concert versions of everything - that's just not how most theatrical production companies work anymore. Musical theatre is about so much more than that, so "more than adequate" really is more than sufficient in the wider context of the production as a whole, and I didn't feel short-changed in the slightest. I do think you're taking a very narrow view of this, but that's your prerogative.
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Post by sf on Jun 25, 2018 15:47:05 GMT
But that's the point: at these prices, "more than adequate" isn't good enough. I've seen/heard enough musical revivals over the years that I know perfectly well what it'll sound like with 14 players in the pit. The revival at Curve a few years ago had fewer than that; at regional theatre prices, in a smaller house, I'm OK with it. To present the show in the Palladium, with premium seats costing up to £175, is just cheap. At those prices - not that I'd have paid £175, but everything other than the back third of the upper circle is at least £49 - I want the real deal, not a cut-down imitation of it. Producers get away with it because audiences and critics don't challenge them on it. We should, because cutting the orchestra back significantly alters the experience.
I sat second row of the Grand Circle and paid only £15 for a very good view and sound - the deals and decent prices were there if you were organised enough, so your statement about prices is simply wrong. If you're expecting world-class musicians and a full orchestra, then you pretty much have to stick to concert versions of everything - that's just not how most theatrical production companies work anymore. Musical theatre is about so much more than that, so "more than adequate" really is more than sufficient in the wider context of the production as a whole, and I didn't feel short-changed in the slightest. I do think you're taking a very narrow view of this, but that's your prerogative.
And if you're willing to accept producers passing off cut-down orchestras as the real thing while simultaneously pushing ticket prices up and up and up at way more than the rate of inflation, that in turn is your choice.
I'm perfectly happy to go to the Southwark Playhouse and hear 'Allegro' with a handful of musicians. I'm fine with a band of seven or eight for 'Guys and Dolls' at the Royal Exchange. That's an acceptable compromise in some venues - but NOT at the Palladium, and not at those prices. For £15, maybe - but the cheapest seats on the website right now are double that, and that's only for the back three rows of the upper circle.
To be fair, with 17 musicians in the pit it'll sound better than, for example, the anaemic orchestra at 'An American in Paris' at the Dominion last year, which I didn't know about when I bought the ticket. The Broadway orchestrations for that show - for about 18 musicians - are already undernourished; in the Dominion, for that music, 13 musicians was nowhere near enough. 17 musicians for 'The King and I' won't be as bad - but it also won't be what it should be. As I said somewhere else, there's a sound you just can't recreate when you only have two violins and one viola, and the score of 'The King and I' is full of it.
But anyway, given that the show's racial politics, these days, are sufficiently squirm-inducing that my main reason for going would be to hear a live performance of the music, the fact that they're using a cut-down orchestra means I'll pass. The only reason producers routinely use smaller orchestras these days is because they've formed the impression punters are too dumb to know the difference. I know the difference, and where possible I spend my money accordingly.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2018 18:45:33 GMT
The huge orchestra at Lincoln Center was simply glorious for this show. And when the stage pulled back and revealed them the audience cheered.
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Post by Boob on Jun 25, 2018 18:59:26 GMT
Does anyone happen to know how many musicians were in the pit for the last King & I revival at the Palladium? I seem to remember it was in the early 20s and sounded divine.
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Post by bobbybaby on Jun 25, 2018 20:45:13 GMT
I sat second row of the Grand Circle and paid only £15 for a very good view and sound - the deals and decent prices were there if you were organised enough, so your statement about prices is simply wrong. If you're expecting world-class musicians and a full orchestra, then you pretty much have to stick to concert versions of everything - that's just not how most theatrical production companies work anymore. Musical theatre is about so much more than that, so "more than adequate" really is more than sufficient in the wider context of the production as a whole, and I didn't feel short-changed in the slightest. I do think you're taking a very narrow view of this, but that's your prerogative.
And if you're willing to accept producers passing off cut-down orchestras as the real thing while simultaneously pushing ticket prices up and up and up at way more than the rate of inflation, that in turn is your choice.
I'm perfectly happy to go to the Southwark Playhouse and hear 'Allegro' with a handful of musicians. I'm fine with a band of seven or eight for 'Guys and Dolls' at the Royal Exchange. That's an acceptable compromise in some venues - but NOT at the Palladium, and not at those prices. For £15, maybe - but the cheapest seats on the website right now are double that, and that's only for the back three rows of the upper circle.
To be fair, with 17 musicians in the pit it'll sound better than, for example, the anaemic orchestra at 'An American in Paris' at the Dominion last year, which I didn't know about when I bought the ticket. The Broadway orchestrations for that show - for about 18 musicians - are already undernourished; in the Dominion, for that music, 13 musicians was nowhere near enough. 17 musicians for 'The King and I' won't be as bad - but it also won't be what it should be. As I said somewhere else, there's a sound you just can't recreate when you only have two violins and one viola, and the score of 'The King and I' is full of it.
But anyway, given that the show's racial politics, these days, are sufficiently squirm-inducing that my main reason for going would be to hear a live performance of the music, the fact that they're using a cut-down orchestra means I'll pass. The only reason producers routinely use smaller orchestras these days is because they've formed the impression punters are too dumb to know the difference. I know the difference, and where possible I spend my money accordingly.
I have to say I'm with sf on this one. The Palladium is one of the worlds premiere theatres. Radio City Music Hall's the only other i can think of in comparison. For £175 I'd expect the John Wilson Orchestra in the pit (especially moustachioed guy on the harp) and want not only a list of Kelli's dresses but a swatch of each material. A vial of DJW's pectoral enhancement cream (Ryan - I'll give you my sample ) and at least a free pass to the Hampton court flower show to see the orchids. I saw Bartlett Sher's South Pacific on tour and would be so disappointed if this is what gets accepted into the Palladium paying well over top dollar. I am of course going but won't pay anywhere near £175.
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Post by Being Alive on Jun 26, 2018 0:16:08 GMT
Kelli has. holiday date I just saw on Twitter - pretty sure it was the 27th of August
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Post by theatremadness on Jun 26, 2018 11:06:35 GMT
Oh my lord this was GLORIOUS!! The King & I was possibly the first musical I ever saw when my Dad took me to the 2000 West End revival at the Palladium, however being 6 at the time I remember next to nothing about it, so being back at the Palladium and seeing the show again was a very emotional experience! Added to the fact that this is really the first Golden Age R&H musical I've ever seen produced on this scale, it was an evening I won't forget for a long time.
Firstly, it look absolutely beautiful. Once the ship leaves, it's a relatively simply set but it looks incredible, is used well and is just so damn classy. Also sounded wonderful, if not a little quiet, but that could've been due to the Dress Circle overhang dampening the original sound. Having said that, the seats were amazing. Row Q 43, 44 from TodayTix rush and for £25 I honestly could not have asked for better.
Ken Watanabe was sensational as the King. Full or charisma and his comic timing was second to none. What he achieved with his performance, with English being far from his first language, was astounding. And the audience LOVED him. And I actually didn't have as much of a problem with his pronunciations as I thought I might!
In supporting roles, Naoko Mori is indeed a revelation as Lady Thiang and Na-Young Jeon sounded sensational as Tuptim. Only disappointment for me was Dean John Wilson as Lun Tha. Nothing horribly wrong, but he just over-sang everything (as usual) and I didn't think his acting was anything decent either. But nothing to distract from the beauty of everything else!
And then there's Kelli O'Hara. Kelli. O. Hara. What is there to say? Simply divine. She radiates absolute beauty with a voice blessed from the angels. When she first sang and I was there, hearing Kelli O'Hara sing live in front of me, I got goosebumps on my goosebumps and tears in my eyes. In fact I felt that every time she opened her mouth to sing. It's just something else and I'm very glad she is here on Earth to bless us mere mortals! And with that glorious voice, it's so easy to forget and take for granted that she is also a superb first-rate actor. Her accent is wonderful and never falters and her acting and conviction and fire and feistiness that makes her Anna so brilliant is all there in abundance and as early as it is, I agree that the Olivier statue should be hers next year.
Just a wonderful evening, the 3 hours absolutely flew by. Lots of latecomers in the first half an hour - they obviously thought it began at 7.30pm - but hopefully that'll calm down once word spreads that it's 7pm. Audience also clearly loved it. Was packed with a massive standing ovation at the end. There was a feeling of excitement there, people were so happy to be seeing The King and I and I swear to God you could hear people smiling. Especially with the famous lines (I don't remember the script having so much humour?! Maybe it's this production!) and songs, you could hear everyone breathing a sigh of nostalgia. Shall We Dance especially received prolonged applause and cheering - that really was a highlight of the whole show.
Do go and see it if you can and keep persisting with Rush Tickets on TodayTix - can't recommend them enough!!
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Post by Mr Snow on Jun 26, 2018 11:33:58 GMT
and I swear to God you could hear people smiling.
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Post by Oleanna on Jun 26, 2018 11:56:53 GMT
Anybody able to post the list of orchestra players please? Oleanna : Conductor & MD: Stephen Ridley Assistant MD & Keyboard: Malcolm Forbes-Peckham Violin 1: Ali Gordon Violin 2: Tom Bott Viola & 2nd Cover Conductor: Michael Keelan Cello: Dom Pecheur Double Bass: Rory Dempsey Harp: Hugh Webb Percussion: Dom Sales Flute & Piccolo: Helen Wilson Oboe & Cor Anglais: Ilid Jones Clarinet & Flute: Steve Pierce Bassoon: Alex Callanan French Horn 1: John Davy French Horn 2: Ruth O'Reilly Trumpet 1: John Barclay Trumpet 2: Freddie Bols Trombone: Phil Judge A keyboard...!? A keyboard!? A keyboard has no place in this pit. So from Broadway to the West End, we’ve gone from 30 incl. conductor to 18 incl. conductor, losing 12 players (including rarer instruments integral to the sound world of this era - i.e Tuba). That’s basically each section halved. To those who say it doesn’t matter, would you be saying the same if the number of ensemble were halved? Or the costumes? Or the size of the ship? Quite apart from servicing the score to its full potential, and the intentions of the composer, why WOULDN’T you want the same for your money that audiences got on Broadway? What makes you willing to compromise?
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Post by poster J on Jun 26, 2018 13:01:12 GMT
Quite apart from servicing the score to its full potential, and the intentions of the composer, why WOULDN’T you want the same for your money that audiences got on Broadway? What makes you willing to compromise? Because, as I've already said several times, TO ME it sounded fine and I didn't feel short-changed in the slightest by any aspect of the production. My opinion, which I shouldn't have to justify. Nothing to do with other productions of this show. And anyway, I paid a hell of a lot less than I would have done on Broadway. Not all of us have the time or the money to go to New York to see specific productions...
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Post by Boob on Jun 26, 2018 14:43:02 GMT
Doesn’t Broadway have some regulation about a required number of musicians relative to the size of venue?
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Post by Sam on Jun 26, 2018 15:51:11 GMT
How do you guys think it's best to approach the todaytix rush seats? Do they allocate them best first or is it random? Do they get more tickets throughout the day?
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Post by theatremadness on Jun 26, 2018 16:00:33 GMT
How do you guys think it's best to approach the todaytix rush seats? Do they allocate them best first or is it random? Do they get more tickets throughout the day? I'm not 100% sure whether they allocate them best first, but they don't add any more throughout the day - once they're gone, they're gone. I guess it also depends on what day you're trying. My experience was that I couldn't get near any tickets trying for a Saturday performance, but got in instantly for a Monday performance. It's completely up to you whether, once you've been given a choice, you return them and try again for better seats but just be aware that once you release your seats, someone else will probably snap them up and then other people may have all the others in their basket and you'll then end up with nothing. Or, you may be lucky and if you release them and try and again you may get the same seats, better or worse. It's just the luck of the draw, really. I decided that, since I was looking for 2 tickets, I just accepted the first they gave me and they turned out great. And as another poster commented, that was the right decision as the remaining seats were further back in the stalls than where I was offered. Always good to remember that whatever you get, for £25 they're going to be worth it!
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Post by bob2010 on Jun 26, 2018 16:02:31 GMT
How do you guys think it's best to approach the todaytix rush seats? Do they allocate them best first or is it random? Do they get more tickets throughout the day? Yes, they allocate best first.... so gotta be quick!
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Post by sf on Jun 26, 2018 16:25:14 GMT
Doesn’t Broadway have some regulation about a required number of musicians relative to the size of venue?
It does, although since 2003 the minimums are significantly smaller than they used to be - with some justification, because it would be ludicrous to hire 26 musicians for something like 'Mamma Mia' or 'School of Rock'.
On the other hand, since the minimums were reduced, it's often been the case that producers hire no more than the minimum number of musicians stipulated for a given theatre. Orchestras on Broadway have certainly shrunk over the past twenty years - although not always quite to the extent they have here. The current Broadway revival of Carousel, for example, lists 25 musicians plus the conductor on ibdb, including six violins and two violas; that's not a huge number more than The King and I at the Palladium, but those additional strings are the difference between an orchestra that sounds good and one that sounds cheap.
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Post by Stephen on Jun 26, 2018 22:56:29 GMT
I fully agree on the difference between having a full string section and having a couple of musicians. HOWEVER I also wouldn't say that a reduced orchestra with doubling of parts necessarily sounds "cheap"
It may mean that producers are saving money however, and the King and I is an excellent example of this, the orchestra plays the more detailed parts of the score extremely well. Therefore I would disagree that it makes an orchestra SOUND cheap.
Another example specific to this production is the re-orchestration of some brass and percussion parts. They're fantastic and far from sounding cheap.
This production may have a bit of a reduced orchestra but it has some incredible case members, beautiful costumes and design and is a terrific revival in a very famous venue. There's a lot of good here. Just my opinion and obviously everyone has differing opinions.
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Post by lonlad on Jun 27, 2018 15:55:27 GMT
Does anyone know if Ruthie Ann Miles will indeed come to open the show next Tuesday? That will be one helluva emotional evening if so.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 9:41:18 GMT
I find it strange how both Ruthie Ann Mills and Naoko Moro are both listed as playing Lady Tiang. Neither is an alternate or anything, this doesn’t normally happen in the West End? Is there like set dates for each actress or one who plays the role more often? Just curious
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Post by Dr Tom on Jun 28, 2018 10:52:17 GMT
I think that the door is open for Ruthie Ann Miles to join the production when she's ready. However, there's no indication that she's been in the UK yet or rehearsing and it wouldn't be surprising if she didn't appear, given the circumstances.
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Post by poster J on Jun 28, 2018 12:20:49 GMT
I find it strange how both Ruthie Ann Mills and Naoko Moro are both listed as playing Lady Tiang. Neither is an alternate or anything, this doesn’t normally happen in the West End? Is there like set dates for each actress or one who plays the role more often? Just curious If you're not aware of the circumstances, read back through this thread. I expect Naoko is Lady Thiang at every performance unless/until Ruthie decides she is able and wants to return to the production. At that point, if we get there, then I expect she will do as many performances as she feels capable of, and Naoko will fill in otherwise. I doubt there will be a set schedule.
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Post by Dr Tom on Jun 29, 2018 8:07:23 GMT
Popped back again last night with a TodayTix Rush Seat (towards the back of the Stalls). Turned out to be Press Night, so was very busy, and also I imagine why the Rush Seats were right at the back. I think there was a celebrity in one of the boxes, but I couldn't tell who (and was too far away to get a good view).
Entrance still busy, but much smoother than at the first preview.
The show view is much better from the rear Stalls than rear Circle, although the rake is terrible, so it can be a challenge to see around heads. The sound was slightly better in the Circle.
Different Louis to last week (and presumably different children as well). He was good, just coming in too early with one of his lines before A Puzzlement, so had to be cut off by Prince Chulalongkorn.
Tiny amount of entrance applause for Kelli. None for Ken. They did get a full standing ovation at the end.
The audience wasn't the best. There was a group of female TodayTix Rush Ticket holders who had separately booked most of the rows behind, who loudly talked about how cheap their seats were, then got people to move around so they could sit together. Thankfully, they calmed down during the show. Lots of coughers and I just don't understand why people have to loudly open water bottles during the quiet songs.
Also had a mum who brought her son, who used a wheelchair, to see the show. They both loved it, which was great to see, although he did have a tendency to yell things at random times (I know he was trying not to). The lack of consideration of others in the same row did shock me. He'd had a lot of difficulty getting from his chair to his seat and couldn't move easily, but people still insisted at going in and out of the row at that end (including people who were much closer to the other end - although that would have meant a brief walk around the back of the stalls to the ice cream). One lady forced him to move several times, including coming back late after the interval, totally oblivious.
Will look forward to seeing the reviews.
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Post by Sam on Jun 29, 2018 8:14:27 GMT
Popped back again last night with a TodayTix Rush Seat (towards the back of the Stalls). Turned out to be Press Night, so was very busy, and also I imagine why the Rush Seats were right at the back. I think there was a celebrity in one of the boxes, but I couldn't tell who (and was too far away to get a good view). I wondered why it seemed a lot harder to get hold of rush tickets yesterday than the prior few days.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 9:18:20 GMT
Other than
Kelli O Hara
And Lady Thiang
I found this dreadful
Most of what Ken Watanbe says is
Unintelligible
The staging is dull
The acting poor
And it reminded me of a pantomime
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 9:23:16 GMT
Other than Kelli O Hara And Lady Thiang I found this dreadful Most of what Ken Watanbe says is Unintelligible The staging is dull The acting poor And it reminded me of a pantomime P has returned!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 9:31:15 GMT
Other than Kelli O Hara And Lady Thiang I found this dreadful Most of what Ken Watanbe says is Unintelligible The staging is dull The acting poor And it reminded me of a pantomime P has returned! Missed you 🤗 But seriously I went to this and was so upset Kept waiting for it To “take off” Never did My favourite part was Uncle toms cabin Run ElizaaaH!
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