|
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 7:30:49 GMT
" Even now my average week is 60 hours
I refuse to be be punished by a Labour government
For having this work ethic For choosing to help myself
"
60 hours? Really? U said on another thread u see over 200 productions a year too! Unless u work/live in the centre of town I think there could be some fantasticallism going on here somewhere......
Incidentally I can be at work for up to 70 hours a week and I struggle to make ends meet, if labour get in my wages will go up. A lot.
So as I work harder than u for a LOT less I say screw the tories and their sodomy of the working class.
That is all
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 7:44:46 GMT
I just can't quite get my head around people who vote entirely in their own self-interest. I live in a Conservative stronghold. I've done so all my life. I'm not super wealthy but I do alright for myself. But it has never once occurred to me to vote for the status quo just because my life under the status quo is fine. I'm not disabled, I barely even get colds, I don't claim benefits, my only debt is my student loan, I don't (and won't) have children, but even so, I can see which parties look most like they really don't care if the vulnerable members of society live or die, and I will always vote against them. I literally cannot understand how people vote without considering the wider implications. It makes zero sense to me.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 9:02:23 GMT
" Even now my average week is 60 hours I refuse to be be punished by a Labour government For having this work ethic For choosing to help myself " 60 hours? Really? U said on another thread u see over 200 productions a year too! Unless u work/live in the centre of town I think there could be some fantasticallism going on here somewhere...... Incidentally I can be at work for up to 70 hours a week and I struggle to make ends meet, if labour get in my wages will go up. A lot. So as I work harder than u for a LOT less I say screw the tories and their sodomy of the working class. That is all Work and live In centre of town
|
|
2,959 posts
|
Post by crowblack on Jun 8, 2017 9:28:55 GMT
A conservative attitude Is to live within ones own means Funny that - the friends I know who vote Tory (and there aren't many) were all given massive leg-ups by their well-off parents, ironically, in some cases, parents who themselves benefitted from the postwar socialist reforms in education, housing, health and general social mobility . There's an excellent cartoon strip by Toby Morris called 'on a plate' that nails it.
|
|
4,038 posts
|
Post by kathryn on Jun 8, 2017 9:39:36 GMT
I just can't quite get my head around people who vote entirely in their own self-interest. I live in a Conservative stronghold. I've done so all my life. I'm not super wealthy but I do alright for myself. But it has never once occurred to me to vote for the status quo just because my life under the status quo is fine. I'm not disabled, I barely even get colds, I don't claim benefits, my only debt is my student loan, I don't (and won't) have children, but even so, I can see which parties look most like they really don't care if the vulnerable members of society live or die, and I will always vote against them. I literally cannot understand how people vote without considering the wider implications. It makes zero sense to me. I'm sorry to say this, but some people are just arseholes. They literally don't care about anyone else suffering as long as they are ok.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 9:43:28 GMT
I just can't quite get my head around people who vote entirely in their own self-interest. I live in a Conservative stronghold. I've done so all my life. I'm not super wealthy but I do alright for myself. But it has never once occurred to me to vote for the status quo just because my life under the status quo is fine. I'm not disabled, I barely even get colds, I don't claim benefits, my only debt is my student loan, I don't (and won't) have children, but even so, I can see which parties look most like they really don't care if the vulnerable members of society live or die, and I will always vote against them. I literally cannot understand how people vote without considering the wider implications. It makes zero sense to me. To risk co-opting an old election slogan 'I'm with Baemax' I live in a Labour stronghold, but was brought up around Conservatives in my family/their friends (except my Mum who 'came out' strongly anti them virtually the minute my Dad died but anyway). None of them particularly wealthy, but nobody particularly struggling. Meanwhile my Dad's side of the family could basically populate the Jeremy Kyle show, and while I think 'benefit cheats' are generally a myth, I can point you to a fair few in that crowd. Still it has never occurred to me to vote Conservative. Because I see people struggling, and while I might not directly need some of that stuff I'm very conscious of being on disaster away from it.
I have many friends who work for the NHS and in education, myself being the latter as well (until recently) and I cannot in good vote for a party that would ruin both. I don't and won't have children, but I don't see why I shouldn't care about their education in the broader sense. I do obviously use the NHS, was at the Doctor's this morning in fact, could I get by with private healthcare? probably, do I think everyone should have to because I could? defiantly not.
|
|
2,706 posts
|
Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jun 8, 2017 10:57:40 GMT
I'm probably more mobile in my voting than most here. The only main party that I have, and never could, vote for is UKIP. Under Cameron, and with the coalition, the liberal conservatism has now sadly given way to something more akin to the Michael Howard era party, dog whistles and barely suppressed anger in lieu of policy. Labour may be lacking in many areas now but at least they didn't invade Iraq under a false premise, Farron is a pound shop Nick Clegg and the Greens aren't standing here! Decisions, decisions.....
In the past twenty or so years I've been in three way marginal, LD/CON marginal and now I'm in a LAB/CON marginal so, unusually, my vote has nearly always counted for something. As such tactical voting has become a way of life!
|
|
805 posts
|
Post by duncan on Jun 8, 2017 11:05:07 GMT
No party has a manifesto that will save the NHS, they are all liars.
The fact is the NHS was not designed for the provision of universal healthcare to a population of 65 million who are going to live to 90 and require all of those lovely expensive treatments ( a lot of them for years and maybe decades) and facilities that were not envisaged in the 1940s.
Either the NHS has to change and stop offering free universal care or else our taxes have to go up to pay for it - but as both options are toxic to voters then no party will take the problem by the horns. Until they do we will continue to spend more and more of the tax income of this country on a sticking plaster solution.
No matter what someone's political persuasion is they have to realise that in its current format the NHS is dragging the entire economy down - it has to change and someone in power has to come out and say it but as they are too afraid they wont and we'll continue to throw money down the drain just so each successive Government can say they have spent more than the previous lot.
Its a nasty cycle of spending rather than looking at the solution.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 11:07:36 GMT
It didn't quote properly so I don't know exactly what bit I said that has you annoyed...
But I know full well that nobody can outright fix everything, never mind the example of the NHS. But I feel that any party but the Tories aren't out to deliberately dismantle it. So right now I'll take that. (I likely won't get it, but as we're talking voting preference)
|
|
805 posts
|
Post by duncan on Jun 8, 2017 11:10:53 GMT
The point is though no matter who you are voting for the NHS does need dismantling for the reasons outlined - its not sustainable and until a Government admits that we are going to be in an ever increasing hole.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 11:32:34 GMT
I'm not denying it has issues that need fixing, I've spent enough time waiting for appointments etc like anyone, as well as hearing the utter horror stories from other people. It (and education) were two examples borrowed from Baemax's point in the wider 'voting to make life better for other people' approach point.
I take your point that the NHS needs fixing, personally I voted for a party I think has the best shot at that, but each to their own, such is democracy!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 11:42:04 GMT
Least we know 68 people are voting!
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jun 8, 2017 11:43:03 GMT
You lot are great. Thanks to all for presenting clear arguments on both sides. I'm proud to be voting Labour this election but I now maybe understand a little better what will lead people to vote otherwise, if I can't always understand why. But maybe I never will and I just have to do what I feel is right!
But please carry on this rather healthy debate, this board has a far wider range of people and thoughts than my facebook and twitter does, so in some terms it's far more interesting to read the opinions of 'strangers' than everyone who you already know agrees with you!
|
|
2,706 posts
|
Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jun 8, 2017 11:45:03 GMT
Could be a lot worse, we could have the American system (which, even after Obama's painstaking efforts, is still way short of the coverage we get). Imagine an election where one of the parties here was promising to take away coverage for 7% of the population and still getting elected.
|
|
376 posts
|
Post by sherriebythesea on Jun 8, 2017 14:37:44 GMT
Could be a lot worse, we could have the American system (which, even after Obama's painstaking efforts, is still way short of the coverage we get). Imagine an election where one of the parties here was promising to take away coverage for 7% of the population and still getting elected. Health care in the US is a nightmare. Insurance companies are bleeding consumers to death and taking some of that money and putting it right into politicians pockets. I administer the Health Insurance for the company I work for. Each year it is crazy trying to find a policy that will just let us keep what benefits we have and not have the premiums too much higher. And then to hear people who don't have access to employee sponsored insurance, screaming to repeal ObamaCare, all the while they are enrolled and depend on the ACA, not realizing that they are the same thing. Our country is so f**ked in so many ways right now
|
|
2,051 posts
|
Post by infofreako on Jun 8, 2017 14:43:14 GMT
Well the gaps spread between the top 2. Lib dems have done far better on this forums polls than others I've been watching. Every single forum I use has labour on top by varying degrees which is puzzling considering how the polls are predicting tonights outcome
|
|
|
Post by Honoured Guest on Jun 8, 2017 14:58:02 GMT
As I approach the community hall which is my polling station, I read: "strong and stable my arse" flyposted to a telecoms box just outside. But Theresa May has the last laugh in the subliminal election messaging stakes as, prominently displayed in the entrance porch, is a colourful Zumba poster featuring a smiling female gymnast and the single banner word: "STRONG".
|
|
|
Post by Mr Snow on Jun 8, 2017 15:53:37 GMT
I did choose one of the top 4 on the list because to me this time the choice seems clear. But in the past I have voted for each of them in a General Election. I consider myself a floating voter with no party allegiance whatsoever.
That’s why I get depressed when these discussions split so quickly into them and us. I'm amazed that people believe that something as amorphous as a Club of politico’s can together form a Party that really means anything. They support a Party life they choose to support a Football team. I’ve had the vote for 40 years and seen each of those parties policiesmove around quite a bit. To me that makes sense. We have all prospered (yes I mean that) under a mixed economy and when a Party recognises that there are conflicting needs to be met, it tends to be more electable. They have to accept that and moderate their extremists. The Conservative Party have been more successful at this and less dogmatic which is why they’ve been in power for 28 of those 40 years, despite not being at all ‘popular’ – witness the results of our poll.
As long as we are stuck with a two party system we are hostage to dogma (witness Brexit, Holland, Trump etc.) and reluctantly I’m now in favour of PR with the hope of being ruled by coalitions (with all their disadvantage) of centre parties. However, our representatives will never vote for that, so I can dream on.
|
|
792 posts
|
Post by stuartmcd on Jun 8, 2017 16:02:47 GMT
Well the gaps spread between the top 2. Lib dems have done far better on this forums polls than others I've been watching. Every single forum I use has labour on top by varying degrees which is puzzling considering how the polls are predicting tonights outcome I don't really pay much attention to the polls. In 2015 the polls had Labour and the Conservatives neck and neck so it was a shocker when the exit poll was released and Labour was a lot lower than anticipated. No poll, including the exit poll, expected the Conservatives to receive a majority
|
|
18,791 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 8, 2017 16:03:54 GMT
|
|
2,051 posts
|
Post by infofreako on Jun 8, 2017 16:20:39 GMT
Well the gaps spread between the top 2. Lib dems have done far better on this forums polls than others I've been watching. Every single forum I use has labour on top by varying degrees which is puzzling considering how the polls are predicting tonights outcome I don't really pay much attention to the polls. In 2015 the polls had Labour and the Conservatives neck and neck so it was a shocker when the exit poll was released and Labour was a lot lower than anticipated. No poll, including the exit poll, expected the Conservatives to receive a majority I'm sure the exit polls were at least pointing to a conservative win. Remember it coming as a surprise as the polls the day before if anything had suggested labour if anyone had the slight advantage and all the labour supporters on my local football forum were suggesting the exit polls were wildly wrong
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 16:24:59 GMT
Well the gaps spread between the top 2. Lib dems have done far better on this forums polls than others I've been watching. Every single forum I use has labour on top by varying degrees which is puzzling considering how the polls are predicting tonights outcome It very much depends on the demographic of users taking online polls, I guess. The working class are historically more likely to vote Labour, where as the "elite" tend to vote conservative. If the online poll users are mostly from working class backgrounds then that possibly explains that.
|
|
2,051 posts
|
Post by infofreako on Jun 8, 2017 16:33:51 GMT
Well the gaps spread between the top 2. Lib dems have done far better on this forums polls than others I've been watching. Every single forum I use has labour on top by varying degrees which is puzzling considering how the polls are predicting tonights outcome It very much depends on the demographic of users taking online polls, I guess. The working class are historically more likely to vote Labour, where as the "elite" tend to vote conservative. If the online poll users are mostly from working class backgrounds then that possibly explains that. I'm well aware of that thank you. Not necessarily the case on all these forums though. One of the others is very much what I'd describe as middle class leaning. Apologies if it wasn't intended but your post came across as quite patronising
|
|
2,051 posts
|
Post by infofreako on Jun 8, 2017 16:37:26 GMT
Anyway, many here planning to stay up for the results coming in?
|
|
792 posts
|
Post by stuartmcd on Jun 8, 2017 16:49:59 GMT
I'm sure the exit polls were at least pointing to a conservative win. Remember it coming as a surprise as the polls the day before if anything had suggested labour if anyone had the slight advantage and all the labour supporters on my local football forum were suggesting the exit polls were wildly wrong The exit poll showed the Conservatives winning the most seats but not enough to run as a majority government. There was a lot of focus in the early hours of the election coverage as to what the Conservatives should do and who they should maybe go into coalition with. And as you said the polls the day before were way off what the actual results were. Just shows that we just won't know how this is going to go until later tonight.
|
|
2,041 posts
|
Post by 49thand8th on Jun 8, 2017 16:53:46 GMT
Could be a lot worse, we could have the American system (which, even after Obama's painstaking efforts, is still way short of the coverage we get). Imagine an election where one of the parties here was promising to take away coverage for 7% of the population and still getting elected. Health care in the US is a nightmare. Insurance companies are bleeding consumers to death and taking some of that money and putting it right into politicians pockets. I administer the Health Insurance for the company I work for. Each year it is crazy trying to find a policy that will just let us keep what benefits we have and not have the premiums too much higher. And then to hear people who don't have access to employee sponsored insurance, screaming to repeal ObamaCare, all the while they are enrolled and depend on the ACA, not realizing that they are the same thing. Our country is so f**ked in so many ways right now Yep. "Obamacare" is called that in certain circles for a reason — so the people who weren't keen on having a president darker than they were would disapprove of a system with his name in it. Which is not its official name at all. Anyway, back on topic: Good luck, UK! Don't lose too much sleep tonight. You'll find out in the morning anyway, right?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 17:40:18 GMT
I really struggled this year with who to vote for, and it was between three. So head vs. heart really came into play with my vote. But I have voted and thats the main thing.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 17:43:02 GMT
Anyway, many here planning to stay up for the results coming in? I'm very much planning on getting to bed fairly early and not checking the news in the morning until after I arrive at work. Clearly none of that is going to happen, but it is at least the plan.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 17:53:01 GMT
It very much depends on the demographic of users taking online polls, I guess. The working class are historically more likely to vote Labour, where as the "elite" tend to vote conservative. If the online poll users are mostly from working class backgrounds then that possibly explains that. I'm well aware of that thank you. Not necessarily the case on all these forums though. One of the others is very much what I'd describe as middle class leaning. Apologies if it wasn't intended but your post came across as quite patronising Wow. Well that was out of order. I was only making a response to your comment, with my belief. If you thought I was being patronising then you couldn't be further from the truth. I even wrote that it depends on the demographic, I wasn't sweeping - I have no idea what pages you visit! I apologise but I really don't see how you came to that conclusion. I even said "I guess" and "possibly", to make it clear that I was assuming.
|
|
2,051 posts
|
Post by infofreako on Jun 8, 2017 17:55:05 GMT
I'm well aware of that thank you. Not necessarily the case on all these forums though. One of the others is very much what I'd describe as middle class leaning. Apologies if it wasn't intended but your post came across as quite patronising Wow. Well that was out of order. I was only making a response to your comment, with my belief. If you thought I was being patronising then you couldn't be further from the truth. I apologise but I really don't see how you came to that conclusion. I even said "I guess" and "possibly", to make it clear that I was assuming. As I said. I apologise for offending you I may well have scanned it originally as I've only spotted the I guess now.
|
|