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Post by theatremadness on Jun 3, 2017 23:52:59 GMT
London Bridge & Borough Market are terrorist attacks. Vauxhall stabbing unrelated.
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Post by joem on Jun 4, 2017 0:02:38 GMT
Things will get much worse before they get any better.
Unless there is a willingness to confront the issue head on, without caveats and euphemisms, you can expect much more than this.
Terrorism is only defeated by being more ruthless than the terrorists, and our flabby post-Summer of Love liberal societies are simply not prepared to countenance this yet. We instinctively search for compromise and negotiation even where none is possible.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2017 0:07:04 GMT
London Bridge & Borough Market are terrorist attacks. Vauxhall stabbing unrelated. Which effectively confirms what we were all thinking
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Post by vabbian on Jun 4, 2017 0:20:01 GMT
I work at the Shard. Was meant to finish at 11pm Fire alarm went off at 10 30, Saw some boys running we thought they had set off the alarm for a laugh
My colleague checked his Twitter 10 minutes later and found out about the incident We evacuated immediately It was very scary walking through the streets Tons of sirens and helicopter above
Meant to be working tomorrow but I feel too shaken Mood on the tube home was very mellow Couldn't stop crying when I saw my mum
Safely home now
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3,764 posts
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Post by d'James on Jun 4, 2017 0:36:50 GMT
I work at the Shard. Was meant to finish at 11pm Fire alarm went off at 10 30, Saw some boys running we thought they had set off the alarm for a laugh My colleague checked his Twitter 10 minutes later and found out about the incident We evacuated immediately It was very scary walking through the streets Tons of sirens and helicopter above Meant to be working tomorrow but I feel too shaken Mood on the tube home was very mellow Couldn't stop crying when I saw my mum Safely home now Hugs. Glad you're safe.
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Post by hal9000 on Jun 4, 2017 0:36:52 GMT
It sounds glib to say "Stay safe, Londoners", but I can't think of how better to state what I mean.
So stay safe, yell, scream, cry, feel whatever you are feeling. I wish you didn't have to go through this. Terrorism is sudden and shocking and terrifying.
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Post by tr252 on Jun 4, 2017 1:52:50 GMT
Didn't know of anything until I started getting texts through asking if I'm ok. Been out in Islington and now home safe.
Please stay vigilant and of course safe anybody else who is out and about tonight.
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Post by wickedgrin on Jun 4, 2017 2:22:54 GMT
I work at the Shard. Was meant to finish at 11pm Fire alarm went off at 10 30, Saw some boys running we thought they had set off the alarm for a laugh My colleague checked his Twitter 10 minutes later and found out about the incident We evacuated immediately It was very scary walking through the streets Tons of sirens and helicopter above Meant to be working tomorrow but I feel too shaken Mood on the tube home was very mellow Couldn't stop crying when I saw my mum Safely home now That must have been terrifying for you. So glad you are safe home. Sending love and hugs.
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Post by wickedgrin on Jun 4, 2017 2:25:39 GMT
Anyone watching Lettice and Lovage at the Menier Chocolate Factory tonight must have been affected tonight getting out and home at around 10.30pm.
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Post by viserys on Jun 4, 2017 5:47:17 GMT
Just woke up to the terrible news. Yesterday evening a friend of mine presently in London had posted a short video of her walking through Borough Market on FB, so my first thought was for her (she was safe). I am shocked and saddened, but not frightened to visit London in ten days. I have no smart suggestions on what to do or any other smart words to share here, on Twitter, FB or elsewhere. I don't know how to reach all these deluded people who fall for the attraction of terrorism as there are too many and there's no way to ever please everyone in the world. I take comfort in knowing that our police services and secret services do a great job and have probably prevented many many attacks in the last years. Stay safe everyone and don't let the terrorists get into your heads, if you can.
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Post by stefy69 on Jun 4, 2017 6:22:37 GMT
Oh gosh, just around the corner from my office.
Stay save everyone and catty on for once I agree with Mr Trump : I from now on I will call them Losers.
Love to all here x
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Post by isabel on Jun 4, 2017 7:29:47 GMT
I'm heading back to London in a few hours ( now live in London ) time, I'm not scared
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Post by tmesis on Jun 4, 2017 7:38:36 GMT
I work at the Shard. Was meant to finish at 11pm Fire alarm went off at 10 30, Saw some boys running we thought they had set off the alarm for a laugh My colleague checked his Twitter 10 minutes later and found out about the incident We evacuated immediately It was very scary walking through the streets Tons of sirens and helicopter above Meant to be working tomorrow but I feel too shaken Mood on the tube home was very mellow Couldn't stop crying when I saw my mum Safely home now Really glad you're safe. I was walking over Waterloo Bridge at 10.30 pm to get to Waterloo Station after L'elisir d'amore at ROH. Couldn't understand the massive number of police cars below hurtling towards London Bridge. Thinking about you...much love.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 4, 2017 8:03:48 GMT
Let's sing a happy song together! And organise a meeting with flowers next week saying: ""We will not let them harm our mood". That will teach them.
Seriously. Why are classes in all schools of the country not immediately adjusted? Most of these terrorists live and work in the UK, USA, etc. They were never exposed to critical thinking or other religions. Why do we keep on insisting creating world alienated people? Why do we allow that? Why are so many people never exposed to anything else, even in this society? Why the hell is it taking so long for the government to do anything about that? The seeds are planted when they are very young. Schools should take responsibility. It's the indoctrination of religion that is the real perpetrator.
We are in a war of ideas and beliefs. We need to promote atheism, secularism, critical thinking, wide education and criticise introctrination and intellectual abuse of children.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2017 8:13:34 GMT
In recent years school staff have been trained in PREVENT, knowing how to recognise radicalisation on young children. It is as frequently delivered as safeguarding/child protection training but in a dedicated sector of its own. Yes schools could do more in informing the children themselves but i hardly think they are to blame for this behaviour, if a child is vulnerable to manipulation (for many reasons) then there's very little a teacher can do to convince them otherwise.
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Post by The Matthew on Jun 4, 2017 8:38:09 GMT
It's several years old, but this makes interesting reading on the subject of paths to radicalisation and the fact that there's isn't any useful one we can recognise. Unfortunately the original research doesn't appear to be available online.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jun 4, 2017 8:52:22 GMT
Things will get much worse before they get any better. Unless there is a willingness to confront the issue head on, without caveats and euphemisms, you can expect much more than this. Terrorism is only defeated by being more ruthless than the terrorists, and our flabby post-Summer of Love liberal societies are simply not prepared to countenance this yet. We instinctively search for compromise and negotiation even where none is possible. Read this several times and still don't know what you mean?? My initial reaction was one of shock, but as I don't even know what you are implying I couldn't work out the implications.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 4, 2017 8:58:51 GMT
In recent years school staff have been trained in PREVENT, knowing how to recognise radicalisation on young children. It is as frequently delivered as safeguarding/child protection training but in a dedicated sector of its own. Yes schools could do more in informing the children themselves but i hardly think they are to blame for this behaviour, if a child is vulnerable to manipulation (for many reasons) then there's very little a teacher can do to convince them otherwise. It's not about recognising radicalisation on young children. All children are vulnerable to manipulation. The radical part is planting seeds in their minds that Allah is almighty and indoctrinate them in a way which says that you need to do whatever you think Allah wants, and therefore creating an alienated person. From there it's only a small step to think you are doing good while you are actually doing something bad. This is per definition dangerous. Because of this indoctrination, a person becomes extremely vulnerable to manipulation. Responsibility is not present this way. Therefore all children must be taught a much wider worldview from the start.
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Post by hal9000 on Jun 4, 2017 9:38:23 GMT
Let's sing a happy song together! And organise a meeting with flowers next week saying: ""We will not let them harm our mood". That will teach them. Because having an alternative response like freaking out, demanding retribution, and I don't know, invading Iraq on the basis of spurious evidence really worked out well. [ Terrorists who are from the West ARE exposed to other beliefs and dogma. They tend not to become radicalised until their 20s. And their radicalisation it is a response tied with the "failure" of their sense of self which is deeply tied to masculinity and the acquisitive stylings of society, and that goes for the female suicide numbers as well. What links Islamist terrorists, atheistic terrorists, evangelical Christian terrorists, white supremacist terrorists and misogynist terrorists is that they look at the pecking order in society which fuels rage that they do not get what is owing to them as the perceived "other" moves on with life: women who support abortion access, girls who do not owe them sex and attention, gay men, African-Americans, Immigrants, and ordinary Muslims who disdain them. I agree with your point regarding increasing critical thinking in schools. We need young children to develop their own sense of self and of well-being which is disconnected to their popularity in society. But we live in a capitalistic society where increasingly spending money on one's appearance is mythologised (Lena Dunham published a recent article touting wearing red lipstick as a revolutionary feminist act as opposed to simple grooming and enjoyable style) and curating your life on Instagram is the norm (the Fyre Festival, anyone?).
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Post by Jan on Jun 4, 2017 9:40:07 GMT
Remember not to leap to conclusions, or speculate too hard, or throw out accusations, or believe the earliest news reports. Stay safe, and if your loved ones are all accounted for, you may as well go to bed and take stock in the morning. And what do you suggest we do now when it turns out the conclusions we leapt to were correct ?
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 4, 2017 9:45:35 GMT
They tend not to become radicalised until their 20s. And their radicalisation it is a response tied with the "failure" of their sense of self which is deeply tied to masculinity and the acquisitive stylings of society, and that goes for the female suicide numbers as well. Indoctrinating your children that a certain god is almighty and that you should do what you think he wants is RADICAL per definition. No sense of self is created this way. We need to adjust our views on the term radicalisation.
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Post by Honoured Guest on Jun 4, 2017 9:48:49 GMT
Indoctrinating your children that a certain god is almighty and that you should do what you think he wants is RADICAL per definition. No sense of self is created this way. We need to adjust our views on the term radicalisation. No, it's normal socialisation.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 4, 2017 9:54:40 GMT
No, it's creating world alienated people.
Which is radical. Because when there's no sense of self, anything will be justified in the name of god. These seeds are planted as kids, the actions in their 20's are merely a result. It is a very small step to believe that your god thinks you are doing something good, while in fact you are doing something bad. Because the person will do anything he believes his god wants.
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Post by Honoured Guest on Jun 4, 2017 10:03:00 GMT
But the overwhelming majority of adults with faith totally condemn these terrorist actions.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 4, 2017 10:05:57 GMT
Yes, but pointing a finger to eachother saying their god is wrong and my god is right is not the solution. That's what the terrorists do too.
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Post by The Matthew on Jun 4, 2017 10:06:56 GMT
Remember not to leap to conclusions, or speculate too hard, or throw out accusations, or believe the earliest news reports. Stay safe, and if your loved ones are all accounted for, you may as well go to bed and take stock in the morning. And what do you suggest we do now when it turns out the conclusions we leapt to were correct ? Accept that regardless of whether conclusions were right or wrong, jumping to them does nothing to help make the world a safer place.
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Post by anita on Jun 4, 2017 10:08:13 GMT
Religion has a lot to answer for.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2017 10:16:37 GMT
I got home safe last night thanks to a friend who went completely out of his way to give me a lift. He was the only one sober and driving because he is Muslim. I don't really know what my point is - I guess just that I hope this lovely generous guy doesn't get lumped in with people who do evil things just because they nominally share a religion. People who want to do terrible things will always find an excuse - if it's not religion it will be something else.
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Post by hal9000 on Jun 4, 2017 10:17:35 GMT
It's not about religion.
Several in the United States are not religious. Elliot Rodger was not religious - but he was raised by a liberal film industry family but turned out to be a Men's Rights Activist and failed Pick Up Artist who hated happy people, women, Asians and sexually successful men.
Sound familiar?
It is about people who cannot integrate happily into society, and they are swayed by ultra-masculine, elitist dogma.
It's not about religion.
I'm not going to argue about this anymore if you have your own agenda.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 4, 2017 10:25:56 GMT
And yet, these people are chanting lines with "Allah" right before the attack.
It's all about religion because they think it's their identity.
As long as these things are not separated, people stay world alienated. As long as state and church (law and religion) are not separated, a country stays a zoo.
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