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Post by rumbledoll on Aug 25, 2017 7:28:24 GMT
I think the atmosphere as it would be now is a big factor; also, both are so recognisable that it's harder to believe they are the character as they don't have that chameleon quality some do. I first saw Benedict Cumberbatch in After The Dance at the NT, which is still one of my "Best Ever" productions and likely to remain so, but I'd never heard of him then. I just want to be able to focus on, and believe in, the play, so people who aren't there wholly or mainly for that, or who favour one cast member over the ensemble, risk compromising that experience. Still don't quite understand.. Do the people who came to see a specific actor create the atmosphere that gets in a may for you to percept the character, not the actor? Or is it seeing their face too much or knowing more than you'd want about them that distracts you and somehow makes their performance less convincing? Personally, In three plays I saw Whishaw on stage he never failed to portray the character I'd easily believe in. I guess it's a bit unfair on actors to say that you can't be both famous and good.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2017 8:31:27 GMT
Sometimes the people who come to see a specific actor genuinely do create an atmosphere that makes it difficult to enjoy the play. I've never had an issue with Whishaw or Cumberbatch fans, but Tom Hiddleston fans and Colin Morgan fans are on probation (the latter may come off in the wake of Gloria actually), and I would have to REALLY want to see a particular play to book anything starring James McAvoy again. The Ruling Class was a tough watch for me, and *not* because of anything that was happening on the stage.
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Post by rumbledoll on Aug 25, 2017 9:02:44 GMT
@baemax , interesting as it looks like I've seen the same production and haven't experience any discomfort by something coming from "fans" (differ from night to night maybe?) Even more, considering the day I saw The Rulling Class was Monday so half the seats were given cheaply and also to the folk who came to queue early. Fantastic crowd that was, so appreciative of the play. They might have cheered a little bit too enthusiatic when McAvoy was blessing us.. but who can blame them. It wasn't disrespctful ot inappropriate in any way.. With Colin Morgan though, during Tempest matinee I went to see someone's phone gone off (though I can't vouch it was a teenage Merlin fan), but Roger Allam gave his famous look of death in that direction and everything went quiet. Cannot remember any accidents during Mojo or Gloria.
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Post by crowblack on Aug 25, 2017 9:06:14 GMT
Tom Hiddleston fans and Colin Morgan fans are on probation (the latter may come off in the wake of Gloria actually), and I would have to REALLY want to see a particular play to book anything starring James McAvoy again The young person (20-ish) next to me at Hamlet basically behaved as though she was sitting in front of the TV at home, eating sweets and snacking the whole time, looking at her phone a lot, then leaving midway through the last scene to catch a train, but maybe theatres could do more to address this - if they are putting on a play with an actor whose name will attract new audiences - which in the long run is a good thing - have some 'Kermode code' style notices around the foyer, perhaps, about basic etiquette? Then again, it was an oldie who was loudly rooting stuff out of a plastic bag during Ink until I heard someone hiss 'shut that woman up', and the noisy, constant bracelet-bead-worrier/rattler/chewer next to me in The Tempest (SRB, so not really a fangirl type show)was possibly a drama student or friend of one, judging by the conversation.
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Post by rumbledoll on Aug 25, 2017 9:12:21 GMT
Tom Hiddleston fans and Colin Morgan fans are on probation (the latter may come off in the wake of Gloria actually), and I would have to REALLY want to see a particular play to book anything starring James McAvoy again The young person (20-ish) next to me at Hamlet basically behaved as though she was sitting in front of the TV at home, eating sweets and snacking the whole time, looking at her phone a lot, then leaving midway through the last scene to catch a train, but maybe theatres could do more to address this - if they are putting on a play with an actor whose name will attract new audiences - which in the long run is a good thing - have some 'Kermode code' style notices around the foyer, perhaps, about basic etiquette?
Funny I've mentioned the incident during Tempest above, before the show (for the first time in The Globe!) came a person (in costume too, of course) who specifically explained to the audience that all mobile phones must be switched off and general appropriate behaviour expected. Didn't help though.
Feels like we are moving from the discussion of the play to the Bad Behaviour kind of thread..
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2017 9:48:28 GMT
Funny I've mentioned the incident during Tempest above, before the show (for the first time in The Globe!) came a person (in costume too, of course) who specifically explained to the audience that all mobile phones must be switched off and general appropriate behaviour expected. Didn't help though. Well that's quite simply not true. I mean, yes, they had a costumed cast member explain to the audience that they should behave themselves, but The Tempest in 2013 was certainly not the first time they ever did it at the Globe. I remember 2011's All's Well That Ends Well in particular had a charming little skit where one of the cast came out and did the message in French (it was basically along the lines of "le telefon? NON! Le camera? NON!" and got some of the best laughs of the evening), and they've definitely done similar before then as well.
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Post by rumbledoll on Aug 25, 2017 10:02:38 GMT
Thank you pointing out, my mistake. I just didn't come across that in The Globe before and was wondering why it was done for that particular show. Doesn't make much sense either than for what we are discussing. You either do it all the time or not at all..
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Post by crowblack on Aug 25, 2017 10:15:47 GMT
If you want to see productions without the distraction of star names, come and see theatre in the 'regions' where, these days, alas, we rarely get them!
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Post by peggs on Aug 25, 2017 19:58:42 GMT
Roger Allam gave his famous look of death in that direction and everything went quiet. Cannot remember any accidents during Mojo or Gloria. He has a famous look of death?! Wonderful. I am trying to perfect that myself.
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Post by rumbledoll on Aug 25, 2017 21:15:54 GMT
Roger Allam gave his famous look of death in that direction and everything went quiet. Cannot remember any accidents during Mojo or Gloria. He has a famous look of death?! Wonderful. I am trying to perfect that myself. Yes, he does! You wouldn't want to be naughty if he gives you one. Should ask for a lesson
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Post by peggs on Aug 25, 2017 21:40:58 GMT
He has a famous look of death?! Wonderful. I am trying to perfect that myself. Yes, he does! You wouldn't want to be naughty if he gives you one. Should ask for a lesson Ahh now I have a potentially achievable aim in life! I was once told that I had given someone a death stare but the person I was death staring at didn't even notice so clearly wasn't doing it right.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 22:47:28 GMT
I saw the matinee of this today and pretty much agree with the general consensus on here. Whishaw was marvellous as per, this was badly flawed though. I think the biggest thing is the amount of potential it had to be just brilliant but it just stumbled and crumbled. I really thought Amanda Hale was fantastic too though sadly ended up being enraptured with the stagecraft behind the arrival and departure of the bed than the play as a whole.
Another example for me really of what little of the plot is divulged on the website sounding particularly gripping and all round fascinating and the play failing to live up to the expectations.
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Xanderl
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Not always very high value in terms of ticket yield or donations
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Post by Xanderl on Sept 3, 2017 8:54:04 GMT
I enjoyed this more than I expected - was on the verge of bailing out at the interval but glad I stuck around as the second half was a vast improvement.
Too long though. Some of the extraneous sub-plots could have been cut down or removed entirely (the creative writing class, the drug dealer & addict, and the fulfillment centre canteen staff)
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Post by Steffi on Sept 3, 2017 8:58:01 GMT
I enjoyed this but mainly for Ben Whishaw being brilliant in a play that doesn't really go anywhere - if that makes any sense. There are some great ideas in there and it starts promising. But I feel like all those ideas are never developed into more and after a while things just seem to repeat themselves without adding anything.
That said it did keep me interested right until the end. That was mainly due to Ben Whishaw though.
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Post by peggs on Sept 9, 2017 19:45:41 GMT
I don't really have much to say about this, came out not entirely sure what it was trying to say and rather bemused by some of the route taken in trying to say it. Plus side Theatremonkey is right L22 is really not bad, oddles of leg room, quick exit and when half of the rest of your row gets moved forward in the second half I got to move around the seats to test out all the pillar angles.
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Post by crowblack on Sept 9, 2017 20:44:11 GMT
came out not entirely sure what it was trying to say I saw it this afternoon too* and agree - Ben Whishaw carried it, with some excellent support, but the play itself meandered off leisurely in all directions like a snail race. I really enjoyed the university bits, but they seemed to belong to a different play. The Amazon scenes were pointless and lacklustre - Wish List skewered Amazon with infinitely more skill and humanity. The end seemed very random, too. Still, worth going for Ben Whishaw, so I'm glad I made the effort. Btw, sad to see that nearby gastropub the Old Queen's Head has changed the menu - I'm a mostly-vegetarian but do sometimes eat a pre-theatre burger when I'm in London (yeah, I know) and the 'Kevin Bacon' was in my brother's opinion the best burger in London. Alas, it is now almost all fried chicken and the burger was awful. *I was the puzzled-looking moon-faced old goth in specs and pond-coloured jumper that looks like a cat's been exercising its claws on it.
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Post by tmesis on Sept 9, 2017 22:25:15 GMT
Just on the train back from this evening's performance. Yes it meanders and doesn't really go anywhere but I still really enjoyed it. Love the simple, but very fluid and lucid production. The lampooning of gender/sexual politics was excellently done and Ben Whishaw was superb.
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Post by crowblack on Sept 10, 2017 16:09:25 GMT
I felt it was let down by a disappointing final scene. Yes, particularly as, given the messianic theme, you knew pretty well how it was likely to end. I was hoping for something that would really pull it back and tie things together but it was just weirdly random. I don't feel like shelling out a tenner for the playscript to see if there was something important I missed, and the Amazon workers coda didn't help either. It kept reminding me of something (besides the obvious) - a 60s/70s film? Elements of They Might be Giants or, maybe slightly, of Wise Blood or Static (a lost 80s film which Mosquitoes brought to mind as well - warning: if you look at the little clip video on Youtube with the TheThe soundtrack, there's a massive spoiler in it!)
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Post by Phantom of London on Sept 10, 2017 18:18:55 GMT
I caught the matinee yesterday.
This has been percolating at the Almeida for nearly 4 years, you would've thought a play with such a long creative time, something decent would've been put together, like its predecessor 'Ink'.
Just goes to prove what works on script doesn't always translate to stage.
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Post by peggs on Sept 10, 2017 20:16:07 GMT
We were all out yesterday weren't we, sadly I'd dressed for deepest autumn and the day turned summer so I was too busy necking water to do board member hunting.
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Post by crowblack on Sept 11, 2017 23:01:44 GMT
I wonder if it's a play that might work better as TV? Thinking about it, it seemed to have a Netflix, long-series kind of shape, that sort of meandering pace and feel, with lots of digressions.
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Post by Steve on Sept 14, 2017 10:55:35 GMT
Not had much time to comment lately, but I take the time to do so, as I ran into Parsley at this, which proved to be, along with Ben Whishaw's performance, one of the only things I liked about this. Some spoilers follow. . . This lost me from the start, when a chap, who, supposedly visited by God, barely registers the experience as unusual, reacting in an unbelievably plodding and sluggish way. Of course, this is not about God, but how wretched and sad humans are, but this author did better with the same themes in both the previous plays I've seen by him, at Royal Court and the Donmar. In fact, each play this author writes is less interesting than the last, as he assumes Orson Welles' mantle of living his life backwards. The good thing about hating the play, was getting to hate on it with Parsley, the master of hating on plays, who caned it with me in the interval. Parsley never got past the look of the guy with the huge muscles in the tight T-shirt, who I said I thought looked like a member of the crew of the Starship Enterprise, his t-shirt nike-symbol looking like a Starfleet insignia, which of course meant that his character was marked for slaughter. After all, only James T Kirk, or Ben Whishaw gets to dress like that and survive. Comparing this play to Ben Whishaw's previous Almeida show, Bakkhai, which I loved, I think what this show really lacked was a good antagonist to embody humanity's ennui. The Ben Whishaw/Bertie Carvel faceoff of Bakkhai was electrifying for me, especially as both characters had so much ying and yang in them you barely knew who to root for. Here, you not only knew who to root for, you knew there was no point doing it anyway, as the play was entirely lacking in thrust. 2 and a half stars, for Ben Whishaw (and Parsley too, who's powerful and expressive id this show lacked, to it's detriment, much like this board. Please come back Parsley!).
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Post by peggs on Sept 14, 2017 13:07:46 GMT
An interval rant of all things bad with Parsley, yes that would have made my visit much more interesting!
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Post by foxa on Sept 14, 2017 15:40:23 GMT
I saw this last Saturday but was hesitating to write anything because I didn't make it past the interval. It was the end of a long day and then the damn thing was so dull that I was seriously afraid I was going to nod off and end up in the lap of the stranger next to me. So I fled into the cool Islington night.
'Teddy Ferrera' was a very flawed play but, as Steve says, much better than this (or to be fair - what I saw of this.) 'Ferrera' seemed to be about real things, which this wasn't. I didn't even like Whishaw (who I know can be v. good) - I found him plodding and calculated and unappealing - there I've said it - but maybe he came into his own in the second half. I'll never know.
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Post by peggs on Sept 14, 2017 19:55:28 GMT
I think he was pretty consistent throughout foxa so if he did nothing for you in the first half probably wouldn't have done in the second. Hang on, he did change his t shirt!
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Post by kathryn on Sept 16, 2017 17:03:56 GMT
Oh dearie me.
At the interval my friend and I looked at each other and burst out laughing. I was actually wondering if it was meant to be a parody until we saw the tribute shrine thing at the front of the stalls.
It didn't improve after the interval.
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Post by kathryn on Sept 18, 2017 15:49:55 GMT
I was there too, Kathryn. Still formulating thoughts for my blog - but I got the idea that Shinn was one of those kids whose parents praised him for simply remembering to breathe, and nobody ever stopped telling him that his slightest utterance was purest gold. It's the only possible explanation. I counted about 12 walkouts after the interval, how many did you see? We didn't count - though we did notice the ushers re-seating people to fill gaps in the front stalls after the interval. They'd already had to fill gaps before the play started. Shame they didn't move us away from our pillar seats! I really did feel like it would have been a better play if it had been explicitly critical of the people who think they can solve the world's very complex problems just by talking (or listening). I felt sort of like it wanted the audience to be critical of Luke, and to find his efforts 'problematic', but at the same time it presented him and the subject matter *so* earnestly. It was so achingly PC. The best bit I thought was the creative writing teacher, because he was allowed to clearly be a bit of a dick, even though he sort of had a point at times.
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Post by kathryn on Sept 18, 2017 19:38:13 GMT
It's made it onto my list of 'you think that's bad? Didn't you see ...?' plays.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2017 19:48:17 GMT
It's made it onto my list of 'you think that's bad? Didn't you see ...?' plays. I can confirm it was that bad that Kathryn tweeted me in the interval to add it to said list (which helpfully we'd begun a few days earlier)
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Post by Honoured Guest on Sept 19, 2017 2:53:39 GMT
I really enjoyed it, helped by watching it with the outlook that there was gold to be found in it.
EmiCardiff, how can you turn down a play with the first NT Angel in its cast?
I think of Christopher Shinn's plays as a sort of anti-cooking process. They're stuffed full of all the right ingredients but the audience has to do the actual cooking in their heads, hearts and loins. There probably is a secret recipe but most people end up with a different dish.
Christopher Shinn is one of my favourite playwrights, unleashing real people on the stage.
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