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Post by Jan on Apr 11, 2017 17:26:51 GMT
Yep, screaming fangirls are a major offense but screaming football fans are perfectly reasonable. Oh, I thought in the context of Cumberbatch and the like screaming fangirl was a gender neutral classification. Incidentally it is just your personal view that screaming football fans are perfectly reasonable. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 17:28:12 GMT
Yep, screaming fangirls are a major offense but screaming football fans are perfectly reasonable. Oh, I thought in the context of Cumberbatch and the like screaming fangirl was a gender neutral classification. Incidentally it is just your personal view that screaming football fans are perfectly reasonable. I actually don't think they're reasonable, but I very rarely here anyone else complaining. And no, fanGIRL definitely isn't gender neutral. It's male counterpart, fanboy, is used far less. |
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Post by Jan on Apr 11, 2017 17:29:04 GMT
But I don't see what it is about University Challenge that makes it more suited to men? It's just knowledge. As for the Oscars, that may be the case but even if we go from say the 60s, the ratio is still off, especially considering only four women have ever been nominated. That's less than the men that were nominated this year alone. Really ? You think that sort of very competitive pub/trivia quiz thing doesn't appeal more to men than women competitors ? |
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Post by Jan on Apr 11, 2017 17:30:38 GMT
Oh, I thought in the context of Cumberbatch and the like screaming fangirl was a gender neutral classification. Incidentally it is just your personal view that screaming football fans are perfectly reasonable. I actually don't think they're reasonable, but I very rarely here anyone else complaining. And no, fanGIRL definitely isn't gender neutral. It's male counterpart, fanboy, is used far less. My point is that it gets applied, albeit ironically, to either gender. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 17:32:11 GMT
No I don't? Certainly at my local pub quiz there are just as many women as men.
And the fact that it gets applied far more dismissively to one gender than the other is the issue.
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Post by kathryn on Apr 11, 2017 17:36:09 GMT
I actually don't think they're reasonable, but I very rarely here anyone else complaining. And no, fanGIRL definitely isn't gender neutral. It's male counterpart, fanboy, is used far less. My point is that it gets applied, albeit ironically, to either gender. I don't recall hearing football fans described as 'screaming' actually - is that a regular occurrence? I saw it a lot of CumberHamlet though - often by people saying they couldn't bear to go and sit in an audience with them. |
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Post by bellboard27 on Apr 11, 2017 17:52:15 GMT
On University Challenge surely the question is what was the gender balance of the teams in the first round rather than the last 2.
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Post by mrbarnaby on Apr 11, 2017 19:51:27 GMT
Just the topic of this thread makes my blood boil. The world will officially have gone mad if award ceremonies become gender neutral. It's bad enough that actresses are referred to as actors.
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Post by The Matthew on Apr 11, 2017 20:08:13 GMT
They should have a category-neutral award. Singular, obviously.
(Everyone arrives, walks up the red carpet and settles into their seats.)
Host: "Welcome to the award ceremony. Here to present this year's award is [guest star]."
Guest Star: "And the award goes to [winner], for doing stuff."
Winner: "Thank you for this award. It means so much to me that I am able to do stuff."
Host: "OK. Bar's closed. Piss off home."
(Everyone pisses off home.)
(ITV broadcasts the event, and in the process manages to insert three commercial breaks and miss the winner's speech.)
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Post by Honoured Guest on Apr 12, 2017 3:00:39 GMT
But you need to look at the ratio over the entire 89 years the awards have been running, it would not surprise me at all if that ratio is correct. How many women film directors were there in the 1920s, or 30s, or 40s ? None ? Leni Riefenstahl for one. |
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Post by hal9000 on Apr 12, 2017 7:09:12 GMT
I feel the trend towards Gender Neutral Awards in recent weeks is a reaction to the increased social and cultural presence of gender nor conforming folks in recent years. It's a good thing, but award categorisation is not a problem when employment is.
I don't feel that Gender Neutral Awards are inherently more fair or increase visibility. Creating jobs and legal and social equity makes things more fair.
As it stands, there is constant discussion and evidence of underemployment and underpayment of women, ethnic minorities and disabled. And even less so of that number who are not fit and/or conspicuously attractive. As someone said upthread, in a Gender Neutral nominee pool, genders would ultimately need to be balanced anyway, before eyebrows would twitch and tweeting fingers speed furiously across the phone. The MTV awards are a case in point. (Additionally and perhaps uncoincidentally, the chosen performers are a very mixed bag of people who cannot remotely be compared.)
The most equitable solution are what we have where actors declare their gender. The very tiny minority of persons with asexual organs tend to chose a gender, as do other trans people who may select "other" on a legal document for sex, but choose a bathroom. Even people like Evan Rachel Wood, who identify as Gender Queer, or Eddie Izzard who identifies as Trans, go by a gender for awards and when going for performances, in their cases their born/assigned gender.
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Post by kathryn on Apr 12, 2017 7:26:57 GMT
Eddie Izzard is a transvestite ('Je suis un travesti') - he identifies as male. He's not transsexual.
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Post by hal9000 on Apr 12, 2017 8:01:58 GMT
But you need to look at the ratio over the entire 89 years the awards have been running, it would not surprise me at all if that ratio is correct. How many women film directors were there in the 1920s, or 30s, or 40s ? None ? Leni Riefenstahl for one. Off the top of my head, legit great films were made by Maya Deren, Ida Lupino, Germaine Dulac, Leontine Sagan, Dorothy Arzner, Tazuko Sakane… |
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Post by hal9000 on Apr 12, 2017 8:22:45 GMT
Eddie Izzard is a transvestite ('Je suis un travesti') - he identifies as male. He's not transsexual. Actually, he does now use the term transgender (as opposed to transsexual). I read about it quite recently which is why I mentioned it. He seems to identify as transvestite, male and (as an umbrella term?) transgender. "I came out as transgender 30 years ago and that was quite tricky to do".I have read of him personally using the terms trans and transgender elsewhere in the past year. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 8:32:40 GMT
Eddie Izzard is a transvestite ('Je suis un travesti') - he identifies as male. He's not transsexual. Actually, he does now use the term transgender (as opposed to transsexual). I read about it quite recently which is why I mentioned it. He seems to identify as transvestite, male and (as an umbrella term?) transgender. "I came out as transgender 30 years ago and that was quite tricky to do".I have read of him personally using the terms trans and transgender elsewhere in the past year. I think he's been using both fairly interchangeably. He jokes in his sets about being 'upgraded' to transsexual so he seems to have embraced both labels? Which is fair- he's referred to himself as a transvestite for many years, and if Eddie is happy with that 'label' still who are we to argue? equally, he also seems able to embrace 'transgender' too. And at the end of the day, Eddie is just Eddie (much like any trans person!)
(I've used He here as I've never heard Eddie use any other pronouns)
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Post by hal9000 on Apr 12, 2017 10:04:37 GMT
Exactly, emicardiff - long live Eddie!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 10:11:13 GMT
Exactly, emicardiff - long live Eddie! This is a side note but I recently saw him at the Glee club in Cardiff, and was in the second row AND at the start had only the curtain between me and him, and hearing the click clack of heels to the stage made me grin like a loon.
Long live Eddie indeed! (also a haircut idol of mine- rocking the pixie!)
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Post by kathryn on Apr 12, 2017 11:36:59 GMT
Eddie Izzard is a transvestite ('Je suis un travesti') - he identifies as male. He's not transsexual. Actually, he does now use the term transgender (as opposed to transsexual). I read about it quite recently which is why I mentioned it. He seems to identify as transvestite, male and (as an umbrella term?) transgender. "I came out as transgender 30 years ago and that was quite tricky to do".I have read of him personally using the terms trans and transgender elsewhere in the past year. Well, fair enough, but it does spoil his joke! (It's 'transgenres' in French.) |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 11:45:08 GMT
Actually, he does now use the term transgender (as opposed to transsexual). I read about it quite recently which is why I mentioned it. He seems to identify as transvestite, male and (as an umbrella term?) transgender. "I came out as transgender 30 years ago and that was quite tricky to do".I have read of him personally using the terms trans and transgender elsewhere in the past year. Well, fair enough, but it does spoil his joke! (It's 'transgenres' in French.) I'm sure Eddie won't let it get in the way of his good joke  |
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