|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 11:51:55 GMT
I haven't learned alot about the English language this morning. But I have learnt a few things about some of the people on this board, and that we clearly would not get along if we met in public.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 11:52:50 GMT
DEFINITELY. This is the only spelling of the word. Not 'definately', 'defanately', 'defiantly' or anything else for that matter. Defiantly means something else entirely! And this is why spelling and grammar are important - to make your meaning clear. Otherwise people misunderstand you. They may even get offended by something you didn't actually mean to say - and if you don't know why they've misunderstood you it's very hard indeed to clear up the misunderstanding, because you'll be knee-deep in an argument about it before you know it. Anything else - missing apostrophes, 'could of', 'casted' (that one is my bugbear!) may be annoying to some but is ultimately not important. Correct, Kathryn! You got it! Not important to you, but it clearly is to others... (Please refer to the start of the thread. 14 'likes' in 7 hours is a bit of a record for this board, i reckon!)
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 11:56:23 GMT
I'm just going to chime in and say, that as the first poster to reference the term "Nazi" I'm in no way condoning the use of the word - in fact my post was condemning the casual use of the word in the context of a school teacher being picky about letter formation.
|
|
1,064 posts
|
Post by bellboard27 on Mar 7, 2017 11:57:11 GMT
life is one big typo anyway. Only because God's autocorrect stopped working.
|
|
4,038 posts
|
Post by kathryn on Mar 7, 2017 12:05:18 GMT
Defiantly means something else entirely! And this is why spelling and grammar are important - to make your meaning clear. Otherwise people misunderstand you. They may even get offended by something you didn't actually mean to say - and if you don't know why they've misunderstood you it's very hard indeed to clear up the misunderstanding, because you'll be knee-deep in an argument about it before you know it. Anything else - missing apostrophes, 'could of', 'casted' (that one is my bugbear!) may be annoying to some but is ultimately not important. Correct, Kathryn! You got it! Not important to you, but it clearly is to others... (Please refer to the start of the thread. 14 'likes' in 7 hours is a bit of a record for this board, i reckon!) If it doesn't stop you understanding what is meant it is ultimately not that important. It would be nice if people learnt to write in ways which did not annoy some readers, but given that this is a free forum - no one is paying to read posts - and you can easily put the posters who annoy you on ignore if it bothers you that much, it's really not worth kicking up a huge fuss over. You are not going to persuade people to change how they habitually write on a forum by berating them.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 12:06:13 GMT
Bloody hell!
who gives a flying pig style if people want to conform or not to the English language?! U do realise u are typing on a machine lecturing people u will never meet on a public forum about their grammar/spelling?! I'm assuming it's done in some sort of way to make people feel sh*t about themselves and contribute less to this very vibrant place.
Well done, u just won at the internet!
If you don't like which order letters are put, why don't u go and moan at a dictionary, it's prob the only thing that cares
|
|
4,458 posts
|
Post by poster J on Mar 7, 2017 12:07:10 GMT
I haven't learned alot about the English language this morning. But I have learnt a few things about some of the people on this board, and that we clearly would not get along if we met in public. I hope that part of that learning also includes that people are different, and that just because grammar may not be as important to you doesn't mean that it isn't important to others, or that it isn't allowed to be important to others. No-one is wrong for wishing that people would use correct grammar, and no-one is wrong for posting on a thread that they find incorrect grammar irritating. That's an opinion that people are entitled to as much as those who think it doesn't matter are entitled to think that. To me this thread is starting to become a place to vilify those who do have a concern about the use of the English language, and make us feel bad about voicing our opinions in that regard. Perhaps that wasn't the intention just as it wasn't my intention in posting to make anyone else feel inferior, but a lot of the posts are starting to come across that way. That's why I said that the whole point is that there is a need to find a middle ground - no one "camp" (because frankly this does feel like people dividing into two camps now) is more entitled to their view prevailing than the other. There's a difference between correcting every single instance of incorrect grammar (which would be ridiculous), and simply asking people to give a bit more thought to what they post so that as a matter of standard English grammar it makes sense, particularly in the context of the couple of grammar points that have been pointed out on this thread and are therefore now well known to everyone here. I don't think that having that very slight extra consideration is a lot to ask.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 12:08:15 GMT
I agree with kathryn, it is better to just let people type what they want and accept it and of you dom't like it, ignore it. Because all this thread is achieving thus far is making those who may struggle with language feel like sh*t. And that isn't fair, at all.
|
|
223 posts
|
Post by Kim_Bahorel on Mar 7, 2017 12:08:19 GMT
DEFINITELY. This is the only spelling of the word. Not 'definately', 'defanately', 'defiantly' or anything else for that matter. I am 33 years old I still have no idea how to spell that word. Even when I google it I look at it and think that's not how sounds in my head. I've had to remember its synonyms to look up the correct spelling. Someone mentioned you're & your. It takes me a good 30 seconds to figure out which one I need to use. I don't know about anyone else. But actually when you say about I said out loud a few time I pronounce it "definately" not "definitely". I get sometimes the words definite & defiant muddled up I think because the way I'm pronouncing it.
|
|
4,038 posts
|
Post by kathryn on Mar 7, 2017 12:12:27 GMT
DEFINITELY. This is the only spelling of the word. Not 'definately', 'defanately', 'defiantly' or anything else for that matter. I am 33 years old I still have no idea how to spell that word. Even when I google it I look at it and think that's not how sounds in my head. I've had to remember its synonyms to look up the correct spelling. Someone mentioned you're & your. It takes me a good 30 seconds to figure out which one I need to use. I don't know about anyone else. But actually when you say about I said out loud a few time I pronounce it "definately" not "definitely". I get sometimes the words definite & defiant muddled up I think because the way I'm pronouncing it. Geeky fact - this is actually how philologists work out how pronunciation of languages changes over time. They look at the misspellings of written words - since people tend to misspell words how they pronounce them.
|
|
223 posts
|
Post by Kim_Bahorel on Mar 7, 2017 12:12:59 GMT
Blimey it took me so long to write that the defiant thing already was posted.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 12:13:09 GMT
Yes, a person who doesn't know the meaning of the word "of" is uneducated in that respect. Yeah, you've really misunderstood some of the points here. Someone who types "should of" doesn't automatically not know what "of" means and it's pretty condescending to imply that. Dyslexia, to take one example of a learning difficulty, isn't just someone not trying hard or wallowing in wilful ignorance, it is someone whose brain literally will not make that connection. You can be educated out the wazoo and still have dyslexia, I know for a FACT we have at least one person here who fits that description. It doesn't mean you're uneducated. It doesn't mean you're unwilling to learn. It doesn't mean you're stupid. God it must be EXHAUSTING having dyslexia, with people wilfully misunderstanding how it affects your life and telling you that you would be alright if you just tried a little harder. *waves* yes, yes it is. This is starting to feel like every essay I ever handed in- if I just 'educated' myself or 'spent more time' trying to learn these things I'd be fine.
No as what I'm now calling 'Carpgate' indicates I physically CANNOT SEE the 'right' way things are to be written and/or my brain (or my 'Brian' as it often is) mixes it up into a hot mess and things end up arse backwards. So in a colloquial setting I tend to give my old head a break and think 'they get the gist' naively believing that was good enough.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 12:15:04 GMT
I haven't learned alot about the English language this morning. But I have learnt a few things about some of the people on this board, and that we clearly would not get along if we met in public. I hope that part of that learning also includes that people are different, and that just because grammar may not be as important to you doesn't mean that it isn't important to others, or that it isn't allowed to be important to others. No-one is wrong for wishing that people would use correct grammar, and no-one is wrong for posting on a thread that they find incorrect grammar irritating. That's an opinion that people are entitled to as much as those who think it doesn't matter are entitled to think that. To me this thread is starting to become a place to vilify those who do have a concern about the use of the English language, and make us feel bad about voicing our opinions in that regard. Perhaps that wasn't the intention just as it wasn't my intention in posting to make anyone else feel inferior, but a lot of the posts are starting to come across that way. That's why I said that the whole point is that there is a need to find a middle ground - no one "camp" (because frankly this does feel like people dividing into two camps now) is more entitled to their view prevailing than the other. There's a difference between correcting every single instance of incorrect grammar (which would be ridiculous), and simply asking people to give a bit more thought to what they post so that as a matter of standard English grammar it makes sense, particularly in the context of the couple of grammar points that have been pointed out on this thread and are therefore now well known to everyone here. I don't think that having that very slight extra consideration is a lot to ask. I am not judging anyone for saying their opinion, its a discussion board. But, as an example, if we must go there, I am someone who struggles alot with language. I passed English exams and everything but I stumble over my words, have a slight stutter and talk too fast, to a point where some of my friends have to tell me to just calm down or slow down. And I do struggle with memory occasionally and what the right words are to use. Thats not my fault, it is part of some other issues I won't go into publically here. So hearing that people don't like how some people speak on here, yeah it makes me self-consious, and I wouldn't feel comfortable meeting up with someone who I know from the get-go would have a problem with it. And that is how this whole thread comes across to me, and I'm sure to others as well.
|
|
4,038 posts
|
Post by kathryn on Mar 7, 2017 12:18:45 GMT
Well, you've asked people to 'give a bit more thought', and you've discovered that it has caused a huge discussion about English language usage and offended some people. You've been perceived as lacking in consideration yourself. So, how has that worked out for you? Because I'm pretty sure it's not going to stop people using 'could of'. Edit: Now, why didn't that quote work?!! Gaaaah!
|
|
5,582 posts
|
Post by lynette on Mar 7, 2017 12:20:14 GMT
Goodness me. A tsunami of posts on grammar. I dunno, I'm lucky I s'pose. Never had a problem with readin 'n writin. Street English is easy because if you miss out words or get tenses wrong it is still easy to understand. But proper grammatical English is difficult. And of course we still have dialects and regional variations and how people speak. (as other languages have ) Historic reasoning behind grammar, for example apostrophes, isn't taught nowadays so the rules have no logic and the spoken word dominates. So depends on what society wants. If you want to be a literary author, get it right. If you want to frame laws be accurate. If you can communicate what you want to say to other people you are doing ok. So many kids can't.
Tip for definitely: the middle is finite.
|
|
4,369 posts
|
Post by Michael on Mar 7, 2017 12:22:15 GMT
I can't think of a single example where 'should of' can be used. You should of course know that there is at least one example Oddly enough, I've only ever seen native speaker make this mistake, and only ever using "of" instead of "(ha)'ve", never the other way round. But, as a non-native speaker, who am I to blame you, but if this were a German forum, I'd be so part of the "mind your grammar" side. There are similar mistakes in German that grate on me, e.g. "das" vs. "dass" (one is an article, the other a conjunction). So easy, and yet such a common mistake.
|
|
4,799 posts
|
Post by The Matthew on Mar 7, 2017 12:22:47 GMT
We may have been talking about different things. I wasn't just referring to the forum, but more to the general idea that it's OK to get things wrong as if "wrong" is some sort of "alternative right". If someone makes a typo in an online post, or goes back and rewrites part of a sentence and fails to adjust every part of it to match, then that's not an issue for me: I like people to make a bit of an attempt to consider the reader but not to the extent that they spend twice as long proofreading as they did typing. But sometimes it's clear that people simply don't know the fundamentals of their own language. I've seen press releases where someone has used the wrong one out of "there", "they're" and "their". That's not a typo. It's because they simply haven't the foggiest notion of which to use. That shouldn't happen. This post makes me so fustrated, you are not taking into consideration other peoples reasons for struggling with language. The way that reads is pretty much "people are uneducated". That's completely wrong. I'm fully aware that there are many reasons for struggling with language. I'm also aware that you can't excuse everything as "struggling with language". It's not as if the meaning of "they're" is a secret only disclosed to people studying A-level English and above. If someone's writing a press release and they're not sure which one to use then they should look it up, not say "screw it, my company's reputation isn't worth a minute of my time". You can't call something a struggle if you're not making any effort.
|
|
223 posts
|
Post by Kim_Bahorel on Mar 7, 2017 12:31:02 GMT
Does anyone have any other pet peeves that aren't grammer or spelling related though?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 12:32:29 GMT
..... it's a cast recording, not a soundtrack.....
|
|
4,038 posts
|
Post by kathryn on Mar 7, 2017 12:33:26 GMT
This post makes me so fustrated, you are not taking into consideration other peoples reasons for struggling with language. The way that reads is pretty much "people are uneducated". That's completely wrong. I'm fully aware that there are many reasons for struggling with language. I'm also aware that you can't excuse everything as "struggling with language". It's not as if the meaning of "they're" is a secret only disclosed to people studying A-level English and above. If someone's writing a press release and they're not sure which one to use then they should look it up, not say "screw it, my company's reputation isn't worth a minute of my time". You can't call something a struggle if you're not making any effort. You know, people do sometimes make mistakes not because they don't know what is the right version, but because, well, it's a mistake. Even I've been known to have a brain-fart and use the wrong they're/their/there, and I have a degree in English Lit and work in publishing!! People make all sorts of silly mistakes that they just don't notice at the time - that's why proof readers exist. Sometimes we publish articles that have been checked by 3 authors, a freelance proof reader and an editor, and mistakes still slip through. Blimey, I've even had to correct a misspelling of an author's own name recently - after the article had published! In fact I'd say that the stupider the mistake is, the less likely you are to catch it in advance. I could tell you about some proper howlers! It's sod's law, innit.
|
|
18,774 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on Mar 7, 2017 12:33:52 GMT
Does anyone have any other pet peeves that aren't grammer or spelling related though? Pedantry?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 12:34:32 GMT
"Half time" ...it's an interval, unless you're at the Football!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 12:36:15 GMT
If theatres don't want us to eat anything smelly or noisy, then they should stop letting people take wine or drinks with ice-cubes into the auditorium. And let's not get started on theatres that sell crisps and sweets in crinkly bags...
|
|
1,064 posts
|
Post by bellboard27 on Mar 7, 2017 12:38:04 GMT
"Half time" ...it's an interval, unless you're at the Football! Unless it's a pause. Pauses are designed to lull the unsuspecting audience member into thinking they have time for a trip to the loo, only to be told by FOH to sit back down and cross their legs for the next act.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 12:40:47 GMT
Slightly better than when FOH don't tell them to sit back down and then they have to fight their way back into their seats after the act has recommenced!
|
|
4,458 posts
|
Post by poster J on Mar 7, 2017 12:53:26 GMT
Well, you've asked people to 'give a bit more thought', and you've discovered that it has caused a huge discussion about English language usage and offended some people. You've been perceived as lacking in consideration yourself. So, how has that worked out for you? Because I'm pretty sure it's not going to stop people using 'could of'. Edit: Now, why didn't that quote work?!! Gaaaah! To start, my post wasn't the initial one in this thread that sparked the discussion - the number of likes for that initial post and the number of responses agreeing with it make it pretty evident that it's not one person against the rest of the forum here. Your tone is now getting aggressive and patronising, which I'm afraid to me doesn't help your cause. I am trying to find a middle ground here that isn't going to offend anyone disproportionately, because whether you intend to or not you are offending those of us who dare to disagree with you as much as you seem to have been offended by some of the posts commenting that some people find incorrect grammar irritating. I'm starting to feel as if some of those who think there is no need to be concerned at all about grammar (which is their right to think) are trying to push contrary opinions into the ground by sheer force and aggression. That is as much lacking in consideration as any comment about poor grammar which doesn't take into account disabilities or linguistic backgrounds (which if you care to look back at my posting history in this thread I have specifically taken note of). No-one is right or wrong here, everyone is entitled to think what they please about their grammar and others', particularly on a public forum such as this where there will be differences in expression and people are free to post what they wish, and I think some people need to remember that. It doesn't seem to me to be productive to say any more on this, as clearly there is little appetite for finding a middle ground, which is a shame.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 13:05:07 GMT
I can't think of a single example where 'should of' can be used. You should of course know that there is at least one example Oddly enough, I've only ever seen native speaker make this mistake, and only ever using "of" instead of "(ha)'ve", never the other way round. But, as a non-native speaker, who am I to blame you, but if this were a German forum, I'd be so part of the "mind your grammar" side. There are similar mistakes in German that grate on me, e.g. "das" vs. "dass" (one is an article, the other a conjunction). So easy, and yet such a common mistake. Ah! Now we're on to parethesis...! I had thought of the 'of course' exception after should/would/could but- strictly speaking- the 'of course' should be separated in parethesis using the commas. So it would read, "You should, of course, know..." I would not have guessed you were a non-native speaker. Your command of English is top-notch!
|
|
4,799 posts
|
Post by The Matthew on Mar 7, 2017 13:22:18 GMT
You know, people do sometimes make mistakes not because they don't know what is the right version, but because, well, it's a mistake. That would be why I used the example of a press release, where mistakes matter, rather than a post-it note, where they don't. I want to make it clear that I'm not referring to the sort of mistakes that everyone makes, where their concentration slips for a moment and they type the wrong thing. I do that all the time, and although I catch most of them a few slip through. I'm not talking about issues like dyslexia, where someone struggles with certain aspects of writing. I'm not talking about English as a foreign language. I'm talking about the sort of repeated errors that make it clear that someone simply doesn't care whether they're right or wrong. People keep attacking what I'm saying as if I'm claiming that every error is inexcusable. I've never claimed that. What I'm railing against is the claim that every error must be excused: that if you don't know when to use "their" and when to use "there" then that's absolutely fine and you shouldn't be expected to know which is which. Nobody can avoid every mistake, but we should at least try.
|
|
223 posts
|
Post by Kim_Bahorel on Mar 7, 2017 13:33:37 GMT
If theatres don't want us to eat anything smelly or noisy, then they should stop letting people take wine or drinks with ice-cubes into the auditorium. And let's not get started on theatres that sell crisps and sweets in crinkly bags... I posted up before about it. I sat next to a rather annoying man at a musical who kept reponding to everything from the start with a cheer or yelp. He had a glass with ice in. Proceeded to chew on this ice. I think one must have gone down the wrong way as at one point he started to choke. Which to be honest, I chuckled at. He still carried on chewing the ice though. Queen's theatre has very noisy bottles which unless I'm in a rush to get there from work always buy bottle of water before hand. I have had to buy it before but I make sure I open the bottle before the show starts. Then if I need water I open it during the claps.
|
|
223 posts
|
Post by Kim_Bahorel on Mar 7, 2017 13:44:04 GMT
Speaking of intervals did anyone ever see Oresteia at Trafalgar Studios? I know it was the aesthetic of the show but all intervals should be like that. Timed with the clock ticking down. When it hits zero the next act starts.
|
|