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Post by viserys on Jan 29, 2018 8:22:46 GMT
So I've been last Friday in one of the £15 front stalls seats and I thought it was decent enough. Of course it's no big bright glitzy Disney spectacle and fairly dark in places. My three issues with this production:
a) It takes WAY too long until the first really good song arrives. They should have added at least two songs to the first boring half hour, maybe something that sets the atmosphere in the village and the workshop and some classic "I want" song for Pinocchio early on.
b) Those godawful huge puppets - I can see how they might frighten little children. They also didn't convey any emotion. It's one thing to use puppets to animate animals like the horses in War Horse or the wolf in Grinning Man, but these puppets didn't really work for me. Could simply have put the actors on stilts if they wanted to convey the difference in height between the "adult humans" and "Pinocchio the puppet".
c) The story itself. Pinocchio is just an unlikeable brat and what worked in 19th century as a reminder to children to always be nice and treat your parents with reverence just seems weird today. Maybe it's one of these stories that just need to be let go.
This said, since my expectations had been seriously lowered after following this thread, I still had a good evening. There were some great numbers, some intrigueing stage wizardry that reminded me of Harry Potter and a great cast to watch.
Additional bonus of Row A: A few times Jiminy Cricket was puppeteered right in front of me and I loved watching the fine details of that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 14:22:19 GMT
I didn't hate this. I went in having read the reviews and expected the worst, but was wonderfully surprised. It does suffer from not really knowing what it is...is it a musical...is it a play...will we ever find out? The musical numbers, though short and disjointed were wonderfully done - especially Give A Little Whistle in Act 2 with the ladders. John Tiffany and Steven Hoggett reminded us exactly why Harry Potter was so magical.
I was also drawn to the large puppets, thought they were expertly done.
The children around me adored it...as it started snowing before the show, there were audible gasps!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 19:03:33 GMT
I'vd just had a look on wikipedia and someone has posted the full synopsis of this version if anyone is interested. Also, the full list of songs is on there, which are correct from my memory of it: Act 1 1. "Little Wooden Head" 2. "Little Wooden Head (Reprise)" 3. "Hi Diddle-Dee-Dee" 4. "I've Got No Strings" Act 2 5. "Hi-Diddle-Dee-Dee" (Reprise) 6. "Fun and Fancy Free" 7. "Give A Little Whistle" 8. "When You Wish Upon A Star" Yup just 8 songs in the whole show... two of which are reprises.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 19:09:33 GMT
There was also a give a little whistle in act one. Don't know if these count as sounds but there were ones like when he hadn't the nightmare with strings, the aryan children's name songs and a song when they are going to pleasure island aswell but don't think there were many more, eventhough there were few songs some of them where quite long aswel.
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1,210 posts
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Post by musicalmarge on Jan 30, 2018 19:38:56 GMT
If only Stiles and Drew had been given a chance....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 19:55:13 GMT
If only Stiles and Drew had been given a chance.... Oh god no that would have been a terrible decision. I enjoy some of the songs but am not a lover of them and it just would have given at lest the production of pinocchio a horrible tone and it wouldjjst not be right for this version. I would rather have fewer songs than it be Stiles and Drewes Pinocchio IMHO.
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1,210 posts
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Post by musicalmarge on Jan 31, 2018 9:39:59 GMT
If only Stiles and Drew had been given a chance.... Oh god no that would have been a terrible decision. I enjoy some of the songs but am not a lover of them and it just would have given at lest the production of pinocchio a horrible tone and it wouldjjst not be right for this version. I would rather have fewer songs than it be Stiles and Drewes Pinocchio IMHO. What did you think of Mary Poppins? Anyway any composer to write 8 new songs in my opinion would have made it work more. Either that or remove them all and just have underscoring and the odd song to make it more of a play with music.
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1,016 posts
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Post by andrew on Jan 31, 2018 11:49:39 GMT
I still think this has life. It packs up in the national and goes back into development for a year.
1) A composer comes on and writes at least 3 more songs for each act. They don't have to be masterpieces. 2) Have another go at the large puppets, try and instill facial expressions 3) Bit of character redevelopment with Pinocchio 4) Another pass at the script to remove one or two of the scarier moments, but it should retain some of the darker bits as those are what fairytales are all about
Gather investors, go for a West End run. It could work, dammit!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2018 13:21:24 GMT
Oh god no that would have been a terrible decision. I enjoy some of the songs but am not a lover of them and it just would have given at lest the production of pinocchio a horrible tone and it wouldjjst not be right for this version. I would rather have fewer songs than it be Stiles and Drewes Pinocchio IMHO. What did you think of Mary Poppins? Anyway any composer to write 8 new songs in my opinion would have made it work more. Either that or remove them all and just have underscoring and the odd song to make it more of a play with music. Haven't seen sandy Stiles and Drewe which may make my points seems invalid but hearing the songs , they don't really appeal to be. Just the oldy British cor blimey of it isn't my taste and that style of somgs would have felt very jarring. Yes I can see if they add more songs from other composer that would work.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2018 15:59:21 GMT
I still think this has life. It packs up in the national and goes back into development for a year. 1) A composer comes on and writes at least 3 more songs for each act. They don't have to be masterpieces. 2) Have another go at the large puppets, try and instill facial expressions 3) Bit of character redevelopment with Pinocchio 4) Another pass at the script to remove one or two of the scarier moments, but it should retain some of the darker bits as those are what fairytales are all about Gather investors, go for a West End run. It could work, dammit! Yes to everything you’ve said. I agree on every point here. I genuinely enjoyed this production but with tweaks it had the makings of a future hit.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 22:53:26 GMT
Saw it this afternoon, will put an opinion online next week, but overall not half as bad as I was expecting. Main problem was that it was all just so joyless. Only one good laugh in it, and all the big songs that should have been spectacularly staged... weren't. Yet they spent ages getting minor stuff perfect. Sort of liked the puppets in the end - and the girl playing Jiminy was sweet, I thought. Oh, and the magic was excellent throughout. Haven’t seen this yet but really looking forward to seeing Audrey Brisson, who was also in La Strada fairly recently. She was superb in that. (I missed her in The Grinning Man.) She is the daughter of Cirque du Soleil composer Benoit Jutras and was in Quidam some years back.
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821 posts
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Post by ensembleswings on Feb 12, 2018 22:24:58 GMT
Saw this tonight, have to say I went in with very low expectations but I did enjoy it. There weren’t any standout moments, no big songs but it was still enjoyable enough I do wish the puppets mouths opened/moved though. It did very much feel like they were operating puppets rather than the puppets being ‘alive’ Glad I went to see the show though, but equally as glad that I had an entry pass ticket therefore didn’t spend large amounts of money on it.
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Post by JJShaw on Feb 14, 2018 0:12:43 GMT
I agree that some work could have been done on the puppets to really make then engaging, i thought it was a nice concept, felt very NT.
I enjoyed the show and I think so did the many, many MANY children there at tuesdays matinee (forgot it was half term! won't make that mistake again!) I really liked the music, particularly the Fancy Free song sung by the kids on their way to the island. I certainly wouldn't mind a little cast recording of the show. It certainly feels like a refreshing production and it's nice that, while a Disney property, that Disney has had no say in the show at all. I thought it struck the balance of family and serious rather well too.
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Post by Being Alive on Feb 14, 2018 0:31:21 GMT
I’m so fascinated that so many people managed to enjoy this! I went in not knowing what to expect and didn’t enjoy it at all - and a lot of what people are saying were factors they liked are things that irritated me no end! Difference of opinions eh!
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1,908 posts
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Post by sf on Feb 14, 2018 0:41:18 GMT
I saw it this afternoon, liked a lot of it - the Blue Fairy is wonderful, the illusions are excellent, and I actually didn't have a problem with the (relative) lack of facial expressions from the larger puppets (but I was sitting in the cheap seats right at the front and I could see the actors' facial expressions very clearly) - and yes, it does need a bit of work.
I suspect the rave New York Times review will be a strong incentive to keep working on it. It is very, very nearly a wonderful show, and it's a pity it all isn't as good as the last ten minutes.
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Post by Peroni on Feb 14, 2018 0:47:15 GMT
Saw it Saturday evening and I liked the puppetry, but I thought there could be more happening with the actual actors - a little like when in Avenue Q you end up looking at the actor's facial expressions AND the puppet's head movements and it works great, in this case, the puppets big heads dominate the scene.
I was annoyed that most scenes have a black background for no reason. The production in total, I agree with other comments, seems unfinished and unpolished. The entire 'moral of the story' felt dated and confusing. And what the heck are the children trying alcohol and smoking cigars? Why the black and the fat characters are the bad ones? And how I wish Pinocchio didn't become a real boy in the end and learned about self-acceptance, and that he does not need to `be like his father`!
The highlight for me was the whale, and Annette McLaughlin was also gorgeous, and the cricket was pretty funny too. But I left the theater disappointed because there was potential in this production, which ended up lacking in grace and playfulness and wonder.
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1,908 posts
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Post by sf on Feb 14, 2018 1:49:22 GMT
I was annoyed that most scenes have a black background for no reason. I'd guess a number of the illusions depend on there being a black background. In particular, the moments where the Blue Fairy appears out of nowhere would be very difficult to accomplish without a black backdrop. Also, some of the smallest effects, like the restoration of the burned finger, wouldn't show up against a painted backdrop.
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4,574 posts
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Post by Mark on Mar 31, 2018 21:21:02 GMT
Saw the show tonight from the front row (unsold dayseat? Either way it was a really great seat). I went in with quite low expextations after everything I’d read on here and I was very pleasantly surprised. I think if you were to go in expecting a big glitzy Disney version of Pinocchio you’d be disappointed, but I really liked the puppets and thought it worked very well.
Not sure what sort of life this will have after it’s current production, I’m not sure it would do well in a commercial production.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2018 9:54:23 GMT
The joy of Walt Disney, even for some of us adults, is that it transports us to a magical world. It’s a place that even as children we knew didn’t really exist, with high turreted fairy-tale castles, cobbled squares in Alpine villages, and dark and spooky woods where the trees might be real. But we loved its unique sense of charm which has now been replicated in theme parks (and which some of us have visited numerous times just to rediscover the children in us!)
So when it was announced that the NT were going to have a bash at Pinocchio, one of Walt’s earliest animation features -almost eighty years young- I leapt at the chance to get my tickets. Even the poster had promise…!
Theatre-going, I have come to learn, is all about managing expectations. And quite a few of my expectations take shape after reading reviews on here. The first couple of comments seemed to suggest that this wasn’t quite hitting the mark; there was talk of missed opportunities. So I went along with an open mind.
Oh dear…
The first sight of the black box, never to disappear, had me thinking how proud Hal Prince would be; but where it worked for Evita it fails miserably here. Disney animators create screens where there is never a dull moment- the fish in its bowl, the naughty cat, the lively cuckoo clocks… On stage the dullness is almost palpable. Giant step ladders create some semblance of the mountains, they support Geppetto’s worktop, and they're trees in the wood. But we are never allowed to escape that big black box where, with the exception of some stage tricks, very little magic actually happens.
The early production photographs showing puppets in their various guises had got me thinking they were up to something clever here. But no… The huge one-faced creations, a design gaffe if ever there was one, operated by a team of expressionless puppeteers trying to breathe some sort of life into them, had me wondering just who I was meant to be looking at. I’d love to have been there when they were watching the first run-through: “The puppets just aren’t working are they…?”/ “No. But we’ve got no option now but to run with them…”
There is one misfire after another. The Blue Fairy, devoid of grace, wafts in and out looking a dead ringer for Judi Dench as Lady Macbeth. I couldn’t help thinking that Lampwick (now ‘Lampy’) is played with a nod to Janette Krankie. Not even the talented Audrey Brisson could do much with a cricket that looks like… a cricket. (I missed YOU, Jiminy!) The villains are another hotch-potch which just don’t work. It’s all a bit Trendy Nash, losing sight of its audience. And from the audience’s reaction it was unclear who this was aimed at - youngsters around us watched but were more intent on their interval ice-creams than the Strange Topless Boy in the Yellow Shorts’ plight as he was caught in a cage; some Dads guffawed loudly as most of the jokes landed on their arses, as if to affirm, “You see? I’ve brought you to the theatre AND I’m having a good time!”
I kept thinking what the point of all this had been- if they fancied having a crack at Pinocchio, why not do it? But minus the Disney songs mention, the only bit of Disney they’d left in it. Because unless you try to recreate the magic of Cliff Edwards and the Disney chorus (they don’t) then you might just as well not bother.
We ended with The Lessons we’ve learned. It was something to do with experiencing pain making us human. Mmmm. Another lesson that was painfully obvious to me was to leave something perfect well alone.
And while we’re on something losing its magic, what on earth has happened to our National Theatre? It’s like some sprawling fringe venue with its threadbare carpets, its lifeless displays, its litter strewn tables and the stink of food everywhere you go.
Not the best evening in the theatre.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2018 20:11:00 GMT
I’m tempted to go and see this tomorrow with my daughter, but I really don’t want to pay rack rate. What are my best options? I’ve never day seated and I can’t see it on Today Tix.
(Apologies if this is a total noob question.)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 10:15:10 GMT
If you mean today, Wednesday 4th, then go in the Evening, as right now (10.38am) they have £15 slips on the NT website. Otherwise, don't waste your time shopping around. It isn't going to discount in school holiday week, and there isn't that much left. It hasn't gone out to agents either, so they won't have anything. Good advice. Was looking for the matinee so tonight’s out. Thanks for replying.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 16:53:54 GMT
Well I didn’t hate it, but I struggled to see the point of it. It’s oddly faithful to the film (which I have only watched in passing, and didn’t love) so we get drinking and smoking, which just seems so anachronistic.
The big puppets really need to have mouths that move. The “dream” sequence early on needs to be cut as it petrified my daughter. She wasn’t overly fond of Stromboli, either.
Jiminy Cricket is lovely and inspite of my not loving the Pleasure Island sequence, the lady singing Lampy caught my attention.
Mostly it was an excuse for me to take my almost four year old to the National for the first time, so more one for the memory box than anything. Her joining in with “When You Wish Upon a Star” while conducting, made my heart get bigger (and probably deserves a post in the “bad behaviour” thread, but it was a half term matinee and she was *nearly* in tune.)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 17:56:23 GMT
Also, I had completely forgotten how uncomfortable the seats are in the Lyttleton.
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562 posts
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Post by jadnoop on Apr 10, 2018 12:07:10 GMT
Today's the last performance, and it doesn't look like there will be an extension, but here are my 2c:
The reviews here seem to be fairly lukewarm, but I have to say I really enjoyed this. It didn't have the glitz and bombast of Aladdin (the only other Disney musical that I've seen), but this made it a more interesting play in my view. With Aladdin, the staging seemed to closely match the style and ott-ness of the film, which resulted in a visually exciting musical. However, the downside was that there was a niggling feeling of 'why not go home and watch the real thing?': why watch someone pretend to be Robin Williams, when I could hear the man himself? why watch an (admittedly impressive) magic carpet slowly flow up and down, when I could see through Aladdin's eyes as he whizzed through the cave? and so on.
While some of Pinocchio's staging didn't work (the huge ladders when the coachman arrives for instance), the plot sometimes seemed oddly deflated (the foxes motivation and demise felt incidental), and the special effects never felt truly magical, as a whole I found the musical far more interesting.
Having Pinocchio as the only human on stage worked pretty well, imo, and resulted in some wonderful moments (especially Jiminy Cricket and Gepeto's 'transformations' at the end). It was also great that they were happy to go very dark at times, although I did wonder if younger kids would get nightmares.
My main takeaway however, was that this was probably a play to see from right at the front. From the front few rows the other-worldliness seemed amplified and you really got a puppet/child's eye view: When the Coachman or Stromboli were on stage their odd, massive heads really towered over you, which worked well framed against the relatively simple backdrop. A busier stage (like Aladdin's) might have been more interesting visually for those further back I imagine, but didn't seem necessary from the front.
I wonder if this would have worked better in a smaller auditorium.
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3,063 posts
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Post by Dr Tom on Apr 11, 2018 7:53:58 GMT
I saw this at the final matinee yesterday, having previously seen this early in previews.
For the matinee, I got a front row day seat (online), right at the side, which I think is a good place to sit if you're attending on your own. There are no armrests in the front row and the seats are packed closely together, so you can end up very cosy with the seat neighbours otherwise.
This has changed a lot from the previews, making it a stronger show. Lots of cuts so this was a few minutes shorter and some additional music added (mostly the original songs with new lyrics).
I can't be certain I've got these right as it's a few months since I saw the preview, but some things I noticed:
Little Wooden Head moved to the first half, filling the long period without any songs. No longer sung in the second half at all.
Pleasure Island sequence trimmed (thankfully). Some smoking in this sequence, which I don't recall previously.
Lots of trims to the Fox's dialogue, in particular the political jokes.
The whale sequence looked to have been simplified and I'm sure it had a coloured backdrop before. It looked less impressive from the front than further back.
I don't know if this will tour, but the set looks designed to tour and I could see it having a Christmas run somewhere. And Joe Idris-Roberts was as charming in the Pinocchio role as before.
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Post by Ade on Apr 12, 2018 17:03:20 GMT
I saw this at the final matinee yesterday, having previously seen this early in previews. For the matinee, I got a front row day seat (online), right at the side, which I think is a good place to sit if you're attending on your own. There are no armrests in the front row and the seats are packed closely together, so you can end up very cosy with the seat neighbours otherwise. This has changed a lot from the previews, making it a stronger show. Lots of cuts so this was a few minutes shorter and some additional music added (mostly the original songs with new lyrics). I can't be certain I've got these right as it's a few months since I saw the preview, but some things I noticed: Little Wooden Head moved to the first half, filling the long period without any songs. No longer sung in the second half at all. Pleasure Island sequence trimmed (thankfully). Some smoking in this sequence, which I don't recall previously. Lots of trims to the Fox's dialogue, in particular the political jokes. The whale sequence looked to have been simplified and I'm sure it had a coloured backdrop before. It looked less impressive from the front than further back. I don't know if this will tour, but the set looks designed to tour and I could see it having a Christmas run somewhere. And Joe Idris-Roberts was as charming in the Pinocchio role as before. Can’t be sure about all of the above but, at the first preview, the whale sequence definitely didn’t have a coloured backdrop and there was smoking in the Pleasure Island scene. I remember because my other half commented to me on the former saying it looked very plain and I commented to him on the latter.
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3,063 posts
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Post by Dr Tom on Apr 13, 2018 7:20:44 GMT
Can’t be sure about all of the above but, at the first preview, the whale sequence definitely didn’t have a coloured backdrop and there was smoking in the Pleasure Island scene. I remember because my other half commented to me on the former saying it looked very plain and I commented to him on the latter. Fair enough, I was sat at the back in the slip seats the previous time, so am sure I missed things. With that said, the whale sequence definitely looked more impressive further back (and the wires weren't so obvious). In hindsight, I may well have been thinking about the magic carpet scene from Aladdin rather than comparing with the previous whale section.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2018 23:57:05 GMT
I don't know if this will tour, but the set looks designed to tour and I could see it having a Christmas run somewhere. And Joe Idris-Roberts was as charming in the Pinocchio role as before. I'm kind of hoping this will tour as I missed it at the NT. Although I've no idea how technically demanding the show is, and therefore which venues it would visit i.e. War Horse sized or Curious Incident/One Man, Two Guvnors sized venues (granted some crossover). Also it sounds like it may not even be ready to tour if rewrites are needed. I'd imagine if they were to add in extra songs to make it a full musical then that would take another few years at least.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2018 0:12:26 GMT
It was running for the best part of 4 months
I am unsure how people miss things
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2018 11:36:52 GMT
It was running for the best part of 4 months I am unsure how people miss things Because I'm not from London and it is pretty rare that I get the time off to come down.
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