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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 9:25:22 GMT
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Post by viserys on Dec 1, 2016 9:37:02 GMT
...says the guy whose last shows School of Rock, Stephen Ward, Love Never Dies and Woman in White were all completely white.
Why doesn't ALW overhaul Bombay Dreams or write a show with a predominantly ethnic cast?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 9:41:23 GMT
...says the guy whose last shows School of Rock, Stephen Ward, Love Never Dies and Woman in White were all completely white. Why doesn't ALW overhaul Bombay Dreams or write a show with a predominantly ethnic cast? Read the article. The report was commissioned by him. He didn't write it himself. He also talks about Bombay Dreams in the article. |
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Post by Someone in a tree on Dec 1, 2016 9:48:41 GMT
ALW'a musicals are hideously overrated
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 10:09:46 GMT
I mean in other news...snow is also white.
But seriously, yes, and I'm glad there's some kind of reporting and recommendations. Irritating that it only cites Arts Council England, because also Wales, Scotland NIreland also have actors/companies etc that could/should be a part of this. (Even if we're talking London centric theatre, actors, writers directors and technical staff do and should come from all over to work there so the groundwork should be being put in place nationwide not just England/London)
I'm glad it addresses the lower income barriers as well which is also a great problem.
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Post by thebearofwestend on Dec 1, 2016 10:24:00 GMT
I do think Broadway Theater is more diverse. All 4 Musical Theater Tony Winners were non white. I do feel when Leanne Jones who is a big girl needs to go the voice and has had a lack of roles there is this idea of skinny white people should be the only ones to cast. Diversity is always good . But is 9 shows that have non white ast members good or bad
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 11:35:54 GMT
Broadway could still do better (as could the West End, to a much greater degree). It's great to have diverse casts in shows such as Hamilton, The Color Purple, Shuffle Along, Allegiance, Miss Saigon, etc, but we know diversity is winning when you don't have to write shows about POC to get POC on stages, the diverse casting just happens naturally in all shows (with the exception of ones that are explicitly about race). White =/= default.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 11:42:16 GMT
Indeed! I was nicely surprised that Holiday Inn has a more diverse cast than one might expect- so good colourblind casting there, but then over at Something Rotten the cast is almost blindingly white (currently, I can't speak to previous ensembles etc) so while yes Broadway is doing better at 'musicals that have characters for people of colour' it could still do more across the board. That said, credit for progress.
Likewise West End shows could up both shows about/with POC and ensembles/actors in colourblind roles.
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Post by Jan on Dec 1, 2016 13:08:13 GMT
My guess is that the contributors to this theatre forum are disproportionately white too, so recommendations such as measuring and reporting should apply here too no ?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 13:15:08 GMT
Sure, as soon as "basically anonymous internet commenter on a niche internet discussion board" becomes an actual career where people of all skin tones would like to get involved but the people with the bluest eyes and whitest skin get the lion's share of the opportunities while everyone else is noticeably disadvantaged if not flat out discriminated against.
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Post by Phantom of London on Dec 1, 2016 13:46:51 GMT
Guess what - theatre is very white, middle aged and gay.
I brought the gay reference, as we all know theatre is enjoyed by a huge portion of gay men, which is great, but theatre itself has done nothing special to attract gay men to this genre, except does what it does with every other patron and make everyone feel welcome, for their special evening out and this is how it should be even if you are a person of colour.
So what I am saying theatre doesn't need to change, putting theatre on should never be about ticking equality boxes or any other boxes, it is all about, attracting a diverse population through your artistic programme and welcoming everyone with a smile and hello and for me theatre succeeds at this.
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Post by kathryn on Dec 1, 2016 15:51:22 GMT
...says the guy whose last shows School of Rock, Stephen Ward, Love Never Dies and Woman in White were all completely white. Why doesn't ALW overhaul Bombay Dreams or write a show with a predominantly ethnic cast? Did we see the same School of Rock? Because I definitely recall some very prominent non-white actors in that cast. I've just looked up the Stephen Ward cast and there were non-white actors in that, too. It makes me wonder if part of the problem isn't so much that non-white actors don't get cast, but that people think of theatre as overwhelmingly white even when non-white actors are cast. I mean, there are so many examples of non-white actors being cast in Shakespeare - and not just as Othello - that the idea that agents don't think to put non-white actors forward for those roles, or that directors don't think they're suitable for them, is ludicrous. And yet that is still the argument being made. Is the problem here that people don't register non-white actors unless they are the majority of a cast? Even then people seem to have short memories - Bend It Like Beckham, Memphis, Scottsboro Boys, The Colour Purple, Sister Act and Motown are all a lot more recent that Bombay Dreams. |
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Post by bellboard27 on Dec 1, 2016 17:29:14 GMT
Are there any actual data on WE cast breakdowns, etc? The last I saw on drama schools was BAME being about 14%, which is about the same as UK population, but the report suggests the problem is after graduation. Data for U.K. are 87% white, Asian 7% and black 3% (others mixed etc). There is a lot of supposition and views based on a few shows, but it would be good to have hard numbers.
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Post by 49thand8th on Dec 1, 2016 19:38:05 GMT
...says the guy whose last shows School of Rock, Stephen Ward, Love Never Dies and Woman in White were all completely white. Wait, School of Rock? |
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Post by viserys on Dec 1, 2016 19:59:50 GMT
Well, yea, they cast Preeya Kalidas as Patty and I remember the black teacher. I guess I shouldn't have written "completely" but I basically meant that all his shows have white protagonists. Will we see a black Dewey Finn or a black Stephen Ward? I doubt it. If ALW wants more diversity why not write musicals that offer leading parts for BAME actors the way Bombay Dreams did or the shows Kathryn mentions such as The Colour Purple or Memphis. Although it's interesting to note that all of the shows mentioned, except Beckham, have American roots.
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Post by Raven on Dec 1, 2016 20:19:38 GMT
I can name several musicals right now who have several (and some predominantly) non-white actors:
*Book of Mormon
*Dreamgirls
*Matilda (some of the child cast and Mrs Phelps)
*The Lion King
*Wicked (Boq)
*Charlie & The Chocolate Factory (Violet Beauregarde)
*Kinky Boots (Lola)
*School of Rock (Patty)
*In The Heights
*Les Miserables
*Thriller Live
I think the West End has improved and is more diverse than it used to be. Sure, there are still many musicals who don't currently, or have never, cast non-white actors as leads and perhaps that can be seen as something to change but I think the West End is doing better than Broadway.
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Post by couldileaveyou on Dec 1, 2016 20:38:47 GMT
Guess what - theatre is very white, middle aged and gay. I brought the gay reference, as we all know theatre is enjoyed by a huge portion of gay men, which is great, but theatre itself has done nothing special to attract gay men to this genre, except does what it does with every other patron and make everyone feel welcome, for their special evening out and this is how it should be even if you are a person of colour. So what I am saying theatre doesn't need to change, putting theatre on should never be about ticking equality boxes or any other boxes, it is all about, attracting a diverse population through your artistic programme and welcoming everyone with a smile and hello and for me theatre succeeds at this. It's a bit more nuanced than that |
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Post by couldileaveyou on Dec 1, 2016 20:43:31 GMT
I can name several musicals right now who have several (and some predominantly) non-white actors: *Book of Mormon *Dreamgirls *Matilda (some of the child cast and Mrs Phelps) *The Lion King *Wicked (Boq) *Charlie & The Chocolate Factory (Violet Beauregarde) *Kinky Boots (Lola) *School of Rock (Patty) *In The Heights *Les Miserables *Thriller Live I think the West End has improved and is more diverse than it used to be. Sure, there are still many musicals who don't currently, or have never, cast non-white actors as leads and perhaps that can be seen as something to change but I think the West End is doing better than Broadway. Book of Mormon, Dreamgirls, The Lion Link, Kinky Boots, In The Heights and Thriller Live have roles written specifically for poc, casting non-white actors in those roles is the very minimum they can do, not a glorious achievement. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 20:48:30 GMT
I can name several musicals right now who have several (and some predominantly) non-white actors: *Book of Mormon *Dreamgirls *Matilda (some of the child cast and Mrs Phelps) *The Lion King *Wicked (Boq) *Charlie & The Chocolate Factory (Violet Beauregarde) *Kinky Boots (Lola) *School of Rock (Patty) *In The Heights *Les Miserables *Thriller Live I think the West End has improved and is more diverse than it used to be. Sure, there are still many musicals who don't currently, or have never, cast non-white actors as leads and perhaps that can be seen as something to change but I think the West End is doing better than Broadway. Motown is mainly a black cast. The Bodyguard too has two leads as black characters, Memphis too |
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Post by ctas on Dec 1, 2016 21:54:18 GMT
I think the idea of Les Mis being a great example of cast diversity is hilarious, the male ensemble in particular are one big blur of interchangeable white men. The point is that there needs to be diverse casting outside of roles specifically written for POC, which isn't happening.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 21:57:29 GMT
Half A Sixpence
Has no none white characters
Or actors
At all
And is also empty every night
The 2 may not be correlated
But I am glad
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Post by whygodwhytoday on Dec 1, 2016 22:21:13 GMT
Half A Sixpence Has no none white characters Or actors At all And is also empty every night The 2 may not be correlated But I am glad Do you need a cuddle and a hot water bottle? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 22:22:35 GMT
Half A Sixpence Has no none white characters Or actors At all And is also empty every night The 2 may not be correlated But I am glad You previously said basically the same thing on the half a sixpence thread about the theatre being empty every night, only to have people who were actually there tell you it was a full house. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 22:28:10 GMT
Half A Sixpence Has no none white characters Or actors At all And is also empty every night The 2 may not be correlated But I am glad You previously said basically the same thing on the half a sixpence thread about the theatre being empty every night, only to have people who were actually there tell you it was a full house. I was there last Friday It really wasn't full And many hadn't paid to be there |
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Post by whygodwhytoday on Dec 1, 2016 22:28:41 GMT
Musical theatre, generally, is such a white middle-class avocation. The report is fine but the choice of the word "hideous" is ridiculous.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 22:29:45 GMT
Have a look at tomorrow night
Balcony closed
Still not even 40% sold out?
You think when it magically fills up tomorrow evening
People have actually paid for it?
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Post by kathryn on Dec 2, 2016 14:49:57 GMT
Honestly I'm starting to think that learned helplessness is part of the problem. There are opportunities there - colour blind casting has been the norm at the major theatre companies for years, as we have repeatedly discussed - but the perception is overwhelmingly the opposite.
There was an interview with Leah Harvey in the Guardian about being a black drama student, about being the only non-white student in her year and how the fear of stereotyping is 'crippling'. But then half way through she decides she's actually in a really good position, because there's so much pressure on companies now to have diverse casts and so few non-white actors coming out of drama school, her chances of getting parts are actually pretty good.
She was cast in the Donmar prison trilogy more or less straight out of drama school. I wonder how many of her classmates have done as well?
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Post by 49thand8th on Dec 2, 2016 16:36:23 GMT
Well, yea, they cast Preeya Kalidas as Patty and I remember the black teacher. I guess I shouldn't have written "completely" but I basically meant that all his shows have white protagonists. Will we see a black Dewey Finn or a black Stephen Ward? I doubt it. If ALW wants more diversity why not write musicals that offer leading parts for BAME actors the way Bombay Dreams did or the shows Kathryn mentions such as The Colour Purple or Memphis. Although it's interesting to note that all of the shows mentioned, except Beckham, have American roots. What about all the kids? (You're right about "completely."  ) I doubt we'll ever see a black Dewey Finn, but who knows, right? I agree that it'd be nice to see more roles like those in Allegiance -- roles written for a particular ethnic group that don't necessarily take place in their country of ancestry. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2016 16:59:31 GMT
I think all shows should have a diverse cast and not be all white. I mean I feel a story is true and the main characters are actually white in real life then fair enough but there's ot a big excuse for having black actors in the ensemble, other roles etc?!
Hamilton is a prime example of tearing up the rule book and having a diverse cast amongst all roles, can't be done for every musical I know
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Post by Honoured Guest on Dec 2, 2016 17:08:55 GMT
I was there last Friday It really wasn't full And many hadn't paid to be there But that isn't the Same as being empty Is it? |
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