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Post by Jon on Jul 28, 2020 13:58:49 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if Phantom is only 'closing' like Les Mis closed and be replaced by the new production rather than closing and being replaced by a new show.
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Post by steve10086 on Jul 28, 2020 14:04:53 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if Phantom is only 'closing' like Les Mis closed and be replaced by the new production rather than closing and being replaced by a new show. But Les Mis never closed (if you buy CM’s “longest running musical” crap). This has been announced as Phantom permanently closing.
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Post by anthony on Jul 28, 2020 14:07:49 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if Phantom is only 'closing' like Les Mis closed and be replaced by the new production rather than closing and being replaced by a new show. But Les Mis never closed (if you buy CM’s “longest running musical” crap). This has been announced as Phantom permanently closing. I thought it did close and a new production opened? Phantom would have became the longest running musical in a few more months of running (it would have just passed it, if Covid hadn't happened).
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Post by scarpia on Jul 28, 2020 14:08:37 GMT
I wonder if Cameron was unable to come to an agreement with ALW as to what production they were going to reopen with, so has pulled the show altogether. I wonder that too. Frankly I think it's better for the show to come to an end (though it's sad to not to send if off like it deserves) rather than suffer cost-cutting over the years to the point where it becomes a shadow of its former self and then gets thrown under a bus, which is what Mackintosh did with Les Mis. Lost all respect for Cameron though. His actions during this entire pandemic (not just to do with Phantom) just reek of greed.
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Post by 10642 on Jul 28, 2020 14:10:42 GMT
But Les Mis never closed (if you buy CM’s “longest running musical” crap). This has been announced as Phantom permanently closing. I thought it did close and a new production opened? Phantom would have became the longest running musical in a few more months of running (it would have just passed it, if Covid hadn't happened). Cameron claims although the original production of Les Mis closed, having the staged concert then the new production means Les Mis is the longest running “musical”. Phantom would have become the longest running “production of a musical”
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Post by westendboy on Jul 28, 2020 14:26:10 GMT
I am actually speechless
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 28, 2020 14:26:29 GMT
Eh? Nothing has been said that we didn’t already know. Phantom has been temporarily closed for a refit and will reopen in 2021 when the work has been completed. Move along. Nothing to see here.
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1,445 posts
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Post by steve10086 on Jul 28, 2020 14:37:29 GMT
Eh? Nothing has been said that we didn’t already know. Phantom has been temporarily closed for a refit and will reopen in 2021 when the work has been completed. Move along. Nothing to see here. Saying it has “permanently” closed was something we did not know before.
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Post by richey on Jul 28, 2020 14:42:58 GMT
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Post by westendboy on Jul 28, 2020 14:55:26 GMT
What doesn't make sense to me is that he didn't announce this in a statement via the Phantom website, but in an article in the Evening Standard.
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Post by scarpia on Jul 28, 2020 15:05:48 GMT
This doesn't bode well for Broadway, where the running costs will undoubtedly be higher.
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Post by trapdoor on Jul 28, 2020 15:07:21 GMT
What doesn't make sense to me is that he didn't announce this in a statement via the Phantom website, but in an article in the Evening Standard. Most likely because the core staff he mentions he hasn’t temporarily let go won’t include whoever looks after the phantom website. His PR team wouldn’t be responsible for that.
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Post by scarpia on Jul 28, 2020 15:10:18 GMT
At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if Mackintosh took some Les Mis characters, some Phantom characters, mashed them up into “The Phantom of the Barricades” and marketed it as “The Brilliant Originals Together At Last”. Should save him a bit of cash... given how poor he is. He can hire Laurence Connor as director and the tagline can be 'MORE SPECTACULAR THAN EVER'. The chandelier can look like this: ...and the barricades like this: The rest of the set can be pixelated projections.
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Post by isabel on Jul 28, 2020 15:17:17 GMT
An official announcement is needed. at the moment its just rumours ?
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Post by c4ndyc4ne on Jul 28, 2020 15:23:03 GMT
An official announcement is needed. at the moment its just rumours ? all we have is his take and it seems to be a question of semantics more than anything – the difference between 'shutting down' and 'closing?
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Post by scarpia on Jul 28, 2020 15:32:08 GMT
An official announcement is needed. at the moment its just rumours ? all we have is his take and it seems to be a question of semantics more than anything – the difference between 'shutting down' and 'closing? The key word is "permanently". He also talks about potentially "bringing it back". He doesn't use any of these phrases to describe his other productions, which are presumably simply suspended.
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Post by 141920grm on Jul 28, 2020 15:33:43 GMT
What doesn't make sense to me is that he didn't announce this in a statement via the Phantom website, but in an article in the Evening Standard. Honestly think it was said more for shock value- especially the use of the phrase "permanently shut down". Phantom is such an icon and household name, praying this piece in the ES is just to spur relevant gvt officials into action. Otherwise there would be an official statement about the closure just like the tour. IMO that is the crux of the matter, and my biggest concern regarding all this news about the West End production. As others have mentioned before, this gives him room to "pull a Les Mis" with Phantom, and that is what's most unacceptable to me. On a slightly different note, the @phantombway Instagram account has mysteriously vanished.
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Post by 141920grm on Jul 28, 2020 15:38:25 GMT
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Post by Jon on Jul 28, 2020 15:41:50 GMT
As if Cameron and Andrew really want people bothering them at this time.
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Post by anthony on Jul 28, 2020 15:43:04 GMT
If it is to do a Les Mis (which I suspect is the end game here - I can imagine ALW not agreeing to this, especially with his tweet about wanting to protect the original staging) then the chandelier better be a non-negotiable. A Las Vegas type crash (in which it falls onto the audience, before the auditorium is plunged to darkness and the chandelier is removed from the auditorium, out of view - I imagine this would be impossible with the infrastructure of Her Majesty's anyway), a Hungarian crash (the chandelier falls from the top of the stage, through a hole in the stage) or worse, the last UK tour where it's just some light pyrotechnics, would be totally unacceptable!
I don't know... I know it's dated (in fact, I think I complained on the old forum about the set being visably dusty and dirty!), but there is something really lovely and iconic about the current chandelier being pushed off the stage and caught again when it comes down - it really adds to the performance, in my opinion. I can understand why they'd want to change that element, for example... but for me, a fan of the show, I'd be gutted if the chandelier fall gets updated.
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Post by anthony on Jul 28, 2020 15:44:13 GMT
As if Cameron and Andrew really want people bothering them at this time. Considering Mackintosh and Lloyd Webber seem to be on opposing sides on the production, I imagine this is exactly the kind of reaction and reassurance Lloyd Webber would want, actually.
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Post by westendboy on Jul 28, 2020 15:52:21 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if ALW makes a statement on twitter about the show's closure tomorrow, or maybe even today. remind the higher-ups that many fans feel passionately about this and will be paying attention to their every move regarding the production. Fans did the same thing when it was announced that he was making changes to Les Mis, with even a former cast member (I don't recall how) being vocal about the changes. But this didn't stop Mackintosh from replacing the original, so who says that the Phantom petition will stop him from doing the same? I know the Phantom petition has more signatures than the Les Mis one, but I digress.
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Post by 141920grm on Jul 28, 2020 15:52:32 GMT
As if Cameron and Andrew really want people bothering them at this time. If we don't pester them, especially at this time, they'll take it as a sign no one cares about the production (and its workings, artistry, legacy) and irrevocably change it.
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Post by anthony on Jul 28, 2020 15:54:09 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if ALW makes a statement on twitter about the show's closure tomorrow, or maybe even today. remind the higher-ups that many fans feel passionately about this and will be paying attention to their every move regarding the production. Fans did the same thing when it was announced that he was making changes to Les Mis, with even a former cast member (I don't recall how) being vocal about the changes. But this didn't stop Mackintosh from replacing the original, so who says that the Phantom petition will stop him from doing the same? I know the Phantom petition has more signatures than the Les Mis one, but I digress. Well, it helps that ALW wants to retain the original production also, I guess. Not sure what Schönberg's view on Les Mis was, though.
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Post by 141920grm on Jul 28, 2020 15:58:51 GMT
Fans did the same thing when it was announced that he was making changes to Les Mis, with even a former cast member (I don't recall how) being vocal about the changes. But this didn't stop Mackintosh from replacing the original, so who says that the Phantom petition will stop him from doing the same? I know the Phantom petition has more signatures than the Les Mis one, but I digress. Yes, even Trevor Nunn and John Napier spoke out against it, but just because that failed to make an impact doesn't mean I'll be in any way discouraged from making a lot of noise... especially since Hal and Maria and Gillian aren't around to defend their show any more.
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Post by princeton on Jul 28, 2020 16:01:41 GMT
This is not an announcement about the future of the Phantom of the Opera. It is an ego-driven attempt by CM to put himself at the centre of the story and, I suspect, largely prompted by the positive coverage which ALW received last week. In the article he spins ALW's efforts into an example of what can't happen rather than being about finding solutions; he disses all other theatre owners, producers and arguably SOLT by saying that DMT has treated its customers well by making early decisions and keeping them realistically informed (ah yes - what happened to working alongside other SOLT members rather than going it alone - bet those working on Mormon and DEH love the information flow); and he seems to suggest that any productions already taking bookings for April are making a terrible mistake (tell that to Frozen and Cinderella - but then maybe that's the point - new shows which aren't in his theatres or produced by him). Compare how many times he uses "I", "me" and "mine" - to similar editorials by Sonia Friedman, James Graham, Julian Bird et al.
Make no mistake Phantom of the Opera will be back when theatres reopen - in a version which Cameron Mackintosh wants - and he will already have decided what that is - no amount of petitions will change his view. This is all about fuelling the monster - and making sure that people don't forget that he's very important - nay the most important.
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Post by westendboy on Jul 28, 2020 16:06:13 GMT
Well, it helps that ALW wants to retain the original production also, I guess. Not sure what Schönberg's view on Les Mis was, though. The thing is with Phantom, it's a co-production with RUG (Really Useful Group), which is owned by ALW. But in the ES article, Mackintosh specifically stated that "Andrew and I have had to sadly permanently shut down our London and UK touring productions of The Phantom of the Opera", which would suggest that ALW had to agree to the closure as well, even if he didn't want to. In the case of Les Mis, Schönberg and Boublil were simply the composers/lyricists and didn't own either of the two companies involved with the original. Also take into account that Cameron Mackintosh Ltd is more powerful than the RSC (Royal Shakespeare Company), meaning that really Mackintosh could do whatever he wants to Les Mis without much opposition.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 28, 2020 16:20:41 GMT
Eh? Nothing has been said that we didn’t already know. Phantom has been temporarily closed for a refit and will reopen in 2021 when the work has been completed. Move along. Nothing to see here. Saying it has “permanently” closed was something we did not know before. The 1986 version has permanently closed. We knew that. We saw the set being removed from the building last week. What will be returning is the 2021 rebuild which will I’m sure be just as good if not better, and fit to run for the next 20 years.
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Post by c4ndyc4ne on Jul 28, 2020 16:22:52 GMT
Well, it helps that ALW wants to retain the original production also, I guess. Not sure what Schönberg's view on Les Mis was, though. The thing is with Phantom, it's a co-production with RUG (Really Useful Group), which is owned by ALW. But in the ES article, Mackintosh specifically stated that "Andrew and I have had to sadly permanently shut down our London and UK touring productions of The Phantom of the Opera", which would suggest that ALW had to agree to the closure as well, even if he didn't want to. In the case of Les Mis, Schönberg and Boublil were simply the composers/lyricists and didn't own either of the two companies involved with the original. Also take into account that Cameron Mackintosh Ltd is more powerful than the RSC (Royal Shakespeare Company), meaning that really Mackintosh could do whatever he wants to Les Mis without much opposition. Is it a way of giving Les Mis the indisputable title of longest-running WE musical?
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Post by westendboy on Jul 28, 2020 16:24:48 GMT
The thing is with Phantom, it's a co-production with RUG (Really Useful Group), which is owned by ALW. But in the ES article, Mackintosh specifically stated that "Andrew and I have had to sadly permanently shut down our London and UK touring productions of The Phantom of the Opera", which would suggest that ALW had to agree to the closure as well, even if he didn't want to. In the case of Les Mis, Schönberg and Boublil were simply the composers/lyricists and didn't own either of the two companies involved with the original. Also take into account that Cameron Mackintosh Ltd is more powerful than the RSC (Royal Shakespeare Company), meaning that really Mackintosh could do whatever he wants to Les Mis without much opposition. Is it a way of giving Les Mis the indisputable title of longest-running WE musical? I believe it's a way for Mackintosh to avoid giving any royalties to the original creatives.
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