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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2018 17:25:01 GMT
If someone is so noisy that it makes it impossible - not difficult, but impossible - for the rest of the audience to enjoy the show they paid for, then I'm sorry if it seems cruel but that shouldn't be something that people just have to put up with. Yes, it's rare - for the two cases I mentioned, in the first instance it's reasonable to expect everyone else to be patient. In the second, it isn't, and suggesting there be an alternative provision isn't some kind of hideous notion - it might actually mean some people are more comfortable going to the theatre, for a number of reasons. How many people stay home because they're worried about creating just such a disturbance, and might take advantage of accommodation if it was offered? There will always be people who believe that where disability is concerned, the rest of us should just put up with anything. But while I'll always offer help where I can, and would like to see more done to give people access to the theatre - relaxed performances being a great example - I don't think the enjoyment of one person, whoever they are, should take precedence over the enjoyment of everyone else. We should be looking at ways of helping, not expecting people to just lump it. Frankly that's a disgusting view. I hope you never have the misfortune to be excluded from society just because you might make people uncomfortable. Anyone on this thread who thinks that disabled people should be excluded from theatre for the comfort of others, kindly do me a favour and use the 'ignore' button for my posts, because I certainly don't want to see or interact with any of you horrible individuals who feel that way.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2018 17:29:44 GMT
Oh come now. People with disabilities live with them every single second of their lives. And no matter how much they get on with their lives without trying to let their disability run (or ruin) their lives, the very nature of a disability means that it most certainly will affect their lives. Yes, I've paid money to go to the theatre and yes, I should reasonably expect to enjoy it without being affected by other people but let's not forget, those people live their lives with their disability every. single. second. It's constant. They can't switch it on and off. I think I can count on the fingers of one leg the number of times my enjoyment of a show has been affected by someone with a disability. Now I rarely make exceptions for other people. It's my world, other people have merely been granted the right to live in it but here, I think I can make an exception. I'd be surprised to find many disabled people who make a conscious decision to ruin other people's evenings with their disability, no matter how aware of it they may be. I'm sure that you didn't mean it to sound like that but even still, I have to say that I think that's a pretty shabby thing to say. "I'd be surprised to find many disabled people who make a conscious decision to ruin other people's evenings with their disability" I didn't suggest that she made a conscious decision to ruin other people's evenings with her coughing. I did suggest that she was thoughtless or inconsiderate in not considering the effect on other people. The fact that the conductor was driven to shout at her and (telling them to track the person down and evict her) the audience nearby indicates the scale of the problem. My husband is prone to coughs and will not go to theatres or concerts if he suspects he will be coughing to an extent that will spoil things for other people. I don't think I was necessarily referring to your particular post in my response. Apologies if that wasn't clear. But when you talk about "The fact that the conductor was driven to shout at her and (telling them to track the person down and evict her) the audience nearby indicates the scale of the problem." above and in your post on the opera forum where you say "after one aria he shouted "Be quiet" and in one interval he told people in the front stalls to track down the offender and tell them to leave.", I'm afraid that doesn't "indicate the scale of the problem" at all. What it does indicate is that the conductor is a dickwad of the most gargantuan proportions for not actually speaking quietly to staff and try to find out the cause of the coughing and let them deal with it accordingly. Perhaps he'd have preferred rounding up a few villagers with burning torches instead but I guess he didn't have time as he had another aria to conduct.
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Post by christya on Jan 4, 2018 17:31:07 GMT
If you've managed to interpret 'Let's find a way for everyone to attend and enjoy' as excluding people, then I see no point in engaging any further with you, so I'm happy to oblige. I feel no particular urge to defend my views against anyone who is so eager to wilfully misinterpret, and so quick to jump into a knee-jerk reaction. It must be dreadfully uncomfortable to be so easily outraged. Have a lovely day.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2018 17:31:18 GMT
Indeed @ryan what I got from that post way back when was 'well that conductor has an inflated sense of his own importance and can frankly shove his baton where the sun don't shine'
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2018 18:04:00 GMT
If someone is so noisy that it makes it impossible - not difficult, but impossible - for the rest of the audience to enjoy the show they paid for, then I'm sorry if it seems cruel but that shouldn't be something that people just have to put up with. Yes, it's rare - for the two cases I mentioned, in the first instance it's reasonable to expect everyone else to be patient. In the second, it isn't, and suggesting there be an alternative provision isn't some kind of hideous notion - it might actually mean some people are more comfortable going to the theatre, for a number of reasons. How many people stay home because they're worried about creating just such a disturbance, and might take advantage of accommodation if it was offered? There will always be people who believe that where disability is concerned, the rest of us should just put up with anything. But while I'll always offer help where I can, and would like to see more done to give people access to the theatre - relaxed performances being a great example - I don't think the enjoyment of one person, whoever they are, should take precedence over the enjoyment of everyone else. We should be looking at ways of helping, not expecting people to just lump it. Frankly that's a disgusting view. I hope you never have the misfortune to be excluded from society just because you might make people uncomfortable. Anyone on this thread who thinks that disabled people should be excluded from theatre for the comfort of others, kindly do me a favour and use the 'ignore' button for my posts, because I certainly don't want to see or interact with any of you horrible individuals who feel that way. This seems like an extreme and unnecessarily abusive response to something no one ever said.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2018 21:17:29 GMT
Oh come now. People with disabilities live with them every single second of their lives. And no matter how much they get on with their lives without trying to let their disability run (or ruin) their lives, the very nature of a disability means that it most certainly will affect their lives. Yes, I've paid money to go to the theatre and yes, I should reasonably expect to enjoy it without being affected by other people but let's not forget, those people live their lives with their disability every. single. second. It's constant. They can't switch it on and off. I think I can count on the fingers of one leg the number of times my enjoyment of a show has been affected by someone with a disability. Now I rarely make exceptions for other people. It's my world, other people have merely been granted the right to live in it but here, I think I can make an exception. I'd be surprised to find many disabled people who make a conscious decision to ruin other people's evenings with their disability, no matter how aware of it they may be. I'm sure that you didn't mean it to sound like that but even still, I have to say that I think that's a pretty shabby thing to say. This is a good point well made and I completely get what you're saying.
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Post by bellboard27 on Jan 5, 2018 10:47:54 GMT
At De Profundis yesterday a guy two rows behind me in the dress circle started snoring after about 10 minutes (it was loud enough to make hearing the performance quite difficult!). There was some activity and he stopped. About five minutes later, he started again. To one side of him were several empty seats and then a woman. She promptly got up from her seat, ran to him and gave him an almighty push (people saying "shush" were simply not getting through). I did think she was only going to deliver a small prod to wake him up, but she was clearly going for something more dramatic. The result was no more snoring for the rest of the show. Well done that woman!
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Post by andrew on Jan 5, 2018 11:24:17 GMT
At De Profundis yesterday a guy two rows behind me in the dress circle started snoring after about 10 minutes (it was loud enough to make hearing the performance quite difficult!). There was some activity and he stopped. About five minutes later, he started again. To one side of him were several empty seats and then a woman. She promptly got up from her seat, ran to him and gave him an almighty push (people saying "shush" were simply not getting through). I did think she was only going to deliver a small prod to wake him up, but she was clearly going for something more dramatic. The result was no more snoring for the rest of the show. Well done that woman! I think if it had been me, forcibly woken up by a stranger who had to walk across the room, during a show, to stop me loudly snoring, I would have to quietly get up and leave during the next scene change so I could die quietly on the tube ride home. It must be so embarrassing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 11:32:52 GMT
I think if it had been me, forcibly woken up by a stranger who had to walk across the room, during a show, to stop me loudly snoring, I would have to quietly get up and leave during the next scene change so I could die quietly on the tube ride home. It must be so embarrassing. Oh, you get used to it after a while.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 11:38:04 GMT
Frankly that's a disgusting view. I hope you never have the misfortune to be excluded from society just because you might make people uncomfortable. Anyone on this thread who thinks that disabled people should be excluded from theatre for the comfort of others, kindly do me a favour and use the 'ignore' button for my posts, because I certainly don't want to see or interact with any of you horrible individuals who feel that way. This seems like an extreme and unnecessarily abusive response to something no one ever said. As my original post is there in the quote I'm using that as my 'right of reply'. That wasn't directed at anyone in particular on this forum in a personal sense. It's a post that displays my genuine upset that people would think disabled people should be excluded from theatre because they might 'disturb' other people. I genuinely find that an abhorrent viewpoint. And I stand by that- to even imply that a disabled person, who for whatever reason doesn't conform to some arbitrary standard of 'etiquette' through no fault of their own, and therefore should be denied the same right to enjoyment and freedom as anyone else is a horrible viewpoint, and not one that I want to see. It upsets and yes disgusts me to read people saying 'this disbaled person made noise I know it's not their fault but they should stay away.' can you people not see how awful that is? Yes this is a soapbox issue for me. I'm chair of the board for a disability led theatre that seeks to let people with all kinds of disabilities make theatre and see theatre without encountering the kind of prejudice demonstrated here yesterday. I'm genuinely sorry for my choice of words, and I wasn't intending to send 'hate' of any kind towards individuals here. But I was genuinely upset by the viewpoints expressed. And I'm disappointed those viewpoints go unchallenged by moderation, but my admittedly poorly worded response to challenging those is disciplined. In closing, those who have said things along the lines 'I don't want disabled people in theatre if it disturbs my experience' I just want you to take a long hard look at yourselves, and imagine if because of something out of your control you suddenly couldn't do the thing you love? That you were excludedfrom 'normal' society in many ways. And you knew people out there, on the internet were bitching about you being a terrible annoyance that should be kept out of sight. That's why I was and am upset and angry.
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Post by firefingers on Jan 5, 2018 14:40:09 GMT
I think a decent few post do highlight the requirement for a greater number of relaxed performances. They are still a rarity in the West End and I think shows running a certain length should be required to do them at least yearly. Publicly funded shows should definitely be scheduling them too. They are preferred by everyone. People with difficulties (and their carers) know they can make noise etc without people minding, the cast know what to expect and so aren't put off, and the audiences of the other performances can be free of distractions (which theatre has so much of already) that might hamper their enjoyment of the show. I've done several relaxed performances and they've been a great experience. Obviously disability is a difficult subject but no one wants people who already have a hard enough time as it is being restricted from enjoying live theatre so pushing for an increase in relaxed performances would make everyone happier. Except maybe the accountants as the performances inevitably sell fewer tickets hence why I push them on long runners and publicly funded shows who can afford them.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 15:16:16 GMT
I've seen a number of what I would consider quite severely disabled people at theatres and musicals. One man and his parents (who are his carers) I've spoken to a couple of times at various intervals and at Stage Doors and they have told me how much their son enjoys the shows he attends and it is something for him to look forward to. I don't know them well but we'll certainly say hello when we see each other at shows.
The idea that one person can affect another's enjoyment is very hard to judge and the introduction of relaxed performances is a good way forward. There is an argument that we make allowances or reasonable adjustments for someone who may shout out inadvertently or for younger children at shows. But then you hear that you should treat everyone equally so should we use a level playing field that way.
Someone could doze off due to a medical condition and in warm theatres I can understand people's eyes starting to go especially as they are fixed on one point and could be sat a fair distance away.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 16:32:17 GMT
I think a decent few post do highlight the requirement for a greater number of relaxed performances. They are still a rarity in the West End and I think shows running a certain length should be required to do them at least yearly. Publicly funded shows should definitely be scheduling them too. They are preferred by everyone. People with difficulties (and their carers) know they can make noise etc without people minding, the cast know what to expect and so aren't put off, and the audiences of the other performances can be free of distractions (which theatre has so much of already) that might hamper their enjoyment of the show. I've done several relaxed performances and they've been a great experience. Obviously disability is a difficult subject but no one wants people who already have a hard enough time as it is being restricted from enjoying live theatre so pushing for an increase in relaxed performances would make everyone happier. Except maybe the accountants as the performances inevitably sell fewer tickets hence why I push them on long runners and publicly funded shows who can afford them. Defiantly! and relaxed performances make it possible for those who couldn't come at all to a "normal" performance possible (as in those with sensory difficulties, those with issues around crowds etc.) it's a wonderful thing that more theatres- especially those with the resources to do so- should be insisting upon. But obviously also we should be careful not to corral all disabled people into the 'you must attend only your designated perfomances' as well- not least because they're so few and far between. Just as a whole- in theatre and beyond- we need to keep thinking and rethinking how we make society more accessible for everyone so we're all on as equal a playing field as possible.
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Post by londonmzfitz on Jan 5, 2018 17:17:01 GMT
Someone could doze off due to a medical condition and in warm theatres I can understand people's eyes starting to go especially as they are fixed on one point and could be sat a fair distance away. Sigh. Me. Follies. Saturday matinee. I knew a Circle seat would be a mistake .... Ended up with a bruise on my arm from pinching myself to keep awake .... The Shame!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 17:19:14 GMT
Someone could doze off due to a medical condition and in warm theatres I can understand people's eyes starting to go especially as they are fixed on one point and could be sat a fair distance away. Sigh. Me. Follies. Saturday matinee. I knew a Circle seat would be a mistake .... Ended up with a bruise on my arm from pinching myself to keep awake .... The Shame! I admit I was worried Mum might have dozed off when we saw it (busy few days, travel, lack of sleep etc) and we were in ...Row B...right on the end. I worried we'd be getting a sharp poke from Ms Staunton and and stern word Luckily Janie Dee's belt at that proximity kept everyone wide-awake!
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Post by ellie1981 on Jan 6, 2018 12:57:20 GMT
I think a decent few post do highlight the requirement for a greater number of relaxed performances. They are still a rarity in the West End and I think shows running a certain length should be required to do them at least yearly. Publicly funded shows should definitely be scheduling them too. They are preferred by everyone. People with difficulties (and their carers) know they can make noise etc without people minding, the cast know what to expect and so aren't put off, and the audiences of the other performances can be free of distractions (which theatre has so much of already) that might hamper their enjoyment of the show. I've done several relaxed performances and they've been a great experience. Obviously disability is a difficult subject but no one wants people who already have a hard enough time as it is being restricted from enjoying live theatre so pushing for an increase in relaxed performances would make everyone happier. Except maybe the accountants as the performances inevitably sell fewer tickets hence why I push them on long runners and publicly funded shows who can afford them. Defiantly! and relaxed performances make it possible for those who couldn't come at all to a "normal" performance possible (as in those with sensory difficulties, those with issues around crowds etc.) it's a wonderful thing that more theatres- especially those with the resources to do so- should be insisting upon. But obviously also we should be careful not to corral all disabled people into the 'you must attend only your designated perfomances' as well- not least because they're so few and far between. Just as a whole- in theatre and beyond- we need to keep thinking and rethinking how we make society more accessible for everyone so we're all on as equal a playing field as possible. I was talking to my boss the other week about all the theatre I see and he said how he'd like to go some day. When I asked why he didn't, it completely slipped my mind about his condition. He's epileptic and has mini fits several times a day which involve about 10-20 seconds of him making some rather strange high pitched sounds. He said he'd just need to be guaranteed a seat on the aisle at the back so he could slip out at a moments notice. I;m sure he could arrange a position like that easily but unfortunately he's too self conscious about it to try.
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Post by bellboard27 on Jan 6, 2018 13:15:34 GMT
Defiantly! and relaxed performances make it possible for those who couldn't come at all to a "normal" performance possible (as in those with sensory difficulties, those with issues around crowds etc.) it's a wonderful thing that more theatres- especially those with the resources to do so- should be insisting upon. But obviously also we should be careful not to corral all disabled people into the 'you must attend only your designated perfomances' as well- not least because they're so few and far between. Just as a whole- in theatre and beyond- we need to keep thinking and rethinking how we make society more accessible for everyone so we're all on as equal a playing field as possible. I was talking to my boss the other week about all the theatre I see and he said how he'd like to go some day. When I asked why he didn't, it completely slipped my mind about his condition. He's epileptic and has mini fits several times a day which involve about 10-20 seconds of him making some rather strange high pitched sounds. He said he'd just need to be guaranteed a seat on the aisle at the back so he could slip out at a moments notice. I;m sure he could arrange a position like that easily but unfortunately he's too self conscious about it to try. In quite a few West End theatres a better option might be a box. These often have their own doors opening to corridors outside the auditorium, so would be easier to nip in and out of with minimal notice to anyone else.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2018 13:31:45 GMT
Defiantly! and relaxed performances make it possible for those who couldn't come at all to a "normal" performance possible (as in those with sensory difficulties, those with issues around crowds etc.) it's a wonderful thing that more theatres- especially those with the resources to do so- should be insisting upon. But obviously also we should be careful not to corral all disabled people into the 'you must attend only your designated perfomances' as well- not least because they're so few and far between. Just as a whole- in theatre and beyond- we need to keep thinking and rethinking how we make society more accessible for everyone so we're all on as equal a playing field as possible. I was talking to my boss the other week about all the theatre I see and he said how he'd like to go some day. When I asked why he didn't, it completely slipped my mind about his condition. He's epileptic and has mini fits several times a day which involve about 10-20 seconds of him making some rather strange high pitched sounds. He said he'd just need to be guaranteed a seat on the aisle at the back so he could slip out at a moments notice. I;m sure he could arrange a position like that easily but unfortunately he's too self conscious about it to try. Oh that's such a shame that he doesn't know/feel confident he can ask for help! Especially as that's a fairly easy accommodation for a theatre to give. This is why also theatres (again looking at the 'big boys' to start off with) need to start considering their 'Access' policies to include how to support customers like him. And as well an example how good attitude of people in general towards supporting people with disabilities needs to continue so he doesn't feel so self conscious in general! I really hope he does manage to go someday soon!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2018 23:07:15 GMT
Tonight's prize specimen was at least - to her limited credit - undisruptive enough that I couldn't be bothered saying anything to her or to FOH at the time, but not so much so that I'm not going to come on here and complain. So if you were the BRILLIANT woman at the Young Vic who thought it was appropriate to take photos (and possibly film?) during the show, please check the back of your ticket for conditions of sale, or stay at home next time. I do hope that you find yourself in the years ahead unable to remember the beautiful show you saw because your memories of the show itself have been replaced by flat dull memories of nothing more than the photos you took.
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Post by stuart on Jan 7, 2018 9:46:27 GMT
I was at a pantomime last night and yet again, it was the parents who were behaving worse than children! All of the kids around me were impeccably behaved but you had parents sitting on their phones (the woman next to me spent the entire show with her handbag on her lap, with phone in said handbag as this obviously stops it from shining in others faces but instead lights up your handbag for the entire Circle to see!), one guy left his children unaccompanied about 5mins into Act 1 and only came back just before the interval, another Mum lit up an e-cigarette repeatedly during Act 2 until FOH intervened about 10mins before the end.
I think it’s the ‘iPad parenting mentality’. Child bored? Stick an iPad in front of them, that’ll keep them quiet. Child misbehaving? Stick an iPad in front of them, that’ll stop it. No, pay attention to your children! FOH are not there to supervise them. Also, even though you’re accompanying a child, basic etiquette rules still apply to you!
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Jan 7, 2018 15:46:44 GMT
Tonight's prize specimen was at least - to her limited credit - undisruptive enough that I couldn't be bothered saying anything to her or to FOH at the time, but not so much so that I'm not going to come on here and complain. So if you were the BRILLIANT woman at the Young Vic who thought it was appropriate to take photos (and possibly film?) during the show, please check the back of your ticket for conditions of sale, or stay at home next time. I do hope that you find yourself in the years ahead unable to remember the beautiful show you saw because your memories of the show itself have been replaced by flat dull memories of nothing more than the photos you took. Was that the Jungle? People don't seem to realise that just because the staging is designed to make you feel like you're in a cafe, doesn't mean you can act like you're in a cafe.
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Post by galinda on Jan 8, 2018 10:00:09 GMT
I have always found the audiences at Southwark Playhouse to be well behaved but last week they were awful. Bananaman I guess is the type of show to attract children! We had a young boy in the front row with trainers with flashing lights on so they lit up every time he moved his feet. Then another family had bought their 2 or 3 year old and he kept talking to his mum, running up and down their row and flipping seat chairs up and down, and then she handed out crisps to all her kids. Then in the second act she let him play on her phone for most of it. God, I hate people.
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Post by bellboard27 on Jan 8, 2018 10:33:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 11:54:47 GMT
Some shows do have increased Security - Rocky Horror Show being an obvious one, the "Girls Night Out type shows" like Mamma Mia and Dirty Dancing often have more rigorous alcoholic checks as drink is potentially more likely to be smuggled into those type of shows.
I do feel this is as much to help the theatres increase bar revenue than anything.
Maybe like at airports or some nightclubs anyone considered under the influence is refused admittance.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jan 8, 2018 12:00:05 GMT
When I was reviewing Wonderland at the New Theatre, Oxford last year, they were doing bag/alcohol checks for that one. Hardly the Hen Party type crowd!
They didn't seem to be patting the men down to check for concealed hipflasks or similar...
Sexism at work I fancy!
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