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Brexit
Jul 23, 2020 21:37:50 GMT
Post by n1david on Jul 23, 2020 21:37:50 GMT
Labour aren't going to oppose no deal because there's no mechanism for them to do anything about it, so there's no upside for them in doing so. They can't force an extension as that deadline has passed, they can't negotiate a deal if none exists, so by what means would they be able to stop it? They can condemn it happening but fighting against it is pointless, it's spending political capital to no end.
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2,206 posts
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Brexit
Jul 24, 2020 7:43:22 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 24, 2020 7:43:22 GMT
Also remember Labour are not going to whole heartly oppose no deal due to the political risks of being seen to be too pro European and no chance of the government having to change course if it's what they decide Wish they would have been a little less pro European before the election
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4,799 posts
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Post by The Matthew on Jul 25, 2020 7:35:44 GMT
The forum is throwing up an advertisement:
Brits Are Baffled Pounds Plummeting to Zero
I thought it might be a comment on the effect of Brexit on the economy, but it turns out it looks like it's just a diet ad.
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1,909 posts
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Post by sf on Jul 25, 2020 11:42:59 GMT
The forum is throwing up an advertisement: Brits Are Baffled Pounds Plummeting to Zero I thought it might be a comment on the effect of Brexit on the economy, but it turns out it looks like it's just a diet ad. The morning after the referendum I sat in the cafe in my local Tesco Extra listening in slack-jawed amazement to the conversation at the table behind me - a man on his phone loudly bemoaning the pound's overnight drop against the Euro. He'd voted Leave, because it was the patriotic thing to do (his words, not mine), and he'd come in to get currency for his holiday to Lanzarote... and he'd thought a Leave win might affect the exchange rate, so he'd come early to see if the bureau de change counter had any old stock left at yesterday's price.
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724 posts
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Brexit
Jul 25, 2020 16:01:23 GMT
Post by basdfg on Jul 25, 2020 16:01:23 GMT
One of things a lot of my family are looking forward to happening is the return of old style lightbulbs - their hatred to the new energy saving ones holds no bounds.
I bet the old ones do not return through.
It is fascinating how such a minor issue is a big problem for them.
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18,837 posts
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Brexit
Jul 25, 2020 16:44:55 GMT
Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 25, 2020 16:44:55 GMT
One of things a lot of my family are looking forward to happening is the return of old style lightbulbs - their hatred to the new energy saving ones holds no bounds.
I bet the old ones do not return through.
It is fascinating how such a minor issue is a big problem for them.
If it’s that big of a problem you can still get them on Amazon.
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4,966 posts
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Brexit
Jul 25, 2020 17:22:12 GMT
via mobile
Post by TallPaul on Jul 25, 2020 17:22:12 GMT
One of things a lot of my family are looking forward to happening is the return of old style lightbulbs - their hatred to the new energy saving ones holds no bounds.
I bet the old ones do not return through.
It is fascinating how such a minor issue is a big problem for them.
If it’s that big of a problem you can still get them on Amazon. I'm not even sure there is a need to make Jeff Bezos even richer. Just look for 'rough service' lightbulbs in somewhere like a traditional hardware store.
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724 posts
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Brexit
Jul 27, 2020 17:52:04 GMT
Post by basdfg on Jul 27, 2020 17:52:04 GMT
I have got a feeling Spain might well consider vetoing any trade deal going by what Sky News says.
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724 posts
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 8:17:49 GMT
Post by basdfg on Jul 30, 2020 8:17:49 GMT
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4,038 posts
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 8:40:23 GMT
Post by kathryn on Jul 30, 2020 8:40:23 GMT
One of things a lot of my family are looking forward to happening is the return of old style lightbulbs - their hatred to the new energy saving ones holds no bounds.
I bet the old ones do not return through.
It is fascinating how such a minor issue is a big problem for them.
Which is mad, because these days energy-saving lightbulbs are just as bright as the old-fashioned ones. You just have to buy the kind with the higher wattage. Of course they're not going away. Climate Change - and the need to produce less carbon by using less energy - isn't disappearing just because we left the EU.
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4,799 posts
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 10:08:21 GMT
Post by The Matthew on Jul 30, 2020 10:08:21 GMT
One of things a lot of my family are looking forward to happening is the return of old style lightbulbs - their hatred to the new energy saving ones holds no bounds.
I bet the old ones do not return through.
It is fascinating how such a minor issue is a big problem for them.
Which is mad, because these days energy-saving lightbulbs are just as bright as the old-fashioned ones. You just have to buy the kind with the higher wattage. Of course they're not going away. Climate Change - and the need to produce less carbon by using less energy - isn't disappearing just because we left the EU. It's not just climate change. With our increasing dependence on electronic gadgets we need more electricity than we did a couple of decades ago and there wouldn't have been the generating capacity to meet the demand if we'd kept using incandescent light bulbs. (I was surprised just how inefficient incandescent bulbs are. Lighting my living room with incandescent bulbs for six hours a day for a week would use the same amount of energy as putting more than 20 loads of washing through the washing machine.) I can understand why some people didn't like compact fluorescents: as they aged they took an annoyingly long time to come up to full brightness, turning them on and off again quickly drastically shortened their life, and as I discovered in my own house a long run of wiring could couple across enough power to cause them to flash even when switched off. But modern LEDs are superior to incandescents in every way, unless you enjoy being plunged into darkness with a ping, standing on chairs and the experience of burnt fingertips.
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 10:42:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by frappuccino on Jul 30, 2020 10:42:25 GMT
So how are they going to handle the logistics of Northern Ireland? I mean the Good Friday Agreement means they have must have free travel to Ireland but then citizens of the EU can sneak in through Northern Ireland via Ireland? Hmm... Somehow I doubt 'The troubles' will return though. Irish don't face as much descrimination as before plus the younger generations prefers to sort things out via the ballot box rather than civil war.
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2,706 posts
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 11:11:04 GMT
Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jul 30, 2020 11:11:04 GMT
So how are they going to handle the logistics of Northern Ireland? I mean the Good Friday Agreement means they have must have free travel to Ireland but then citizens of the EU can sneak in through Northern Ireland via Ireland? Hmm... Somehow I doubt 'The troubles' will return though. Irish don't face as much descrimination as before plus the younger generations prefers to sort things out via the ballot box rather than civil war. The UK will not withstand the twin pressures of Brexit and Covid. I fully expect Scotland and Northern Ireland to cut ties within a decade, Wales following later. The best way to stop that would be a fully federal state but I think the will to campaign for that has taken a massive hit. I don’t think Northern Ireland would initially vote for a fully united Ireland, maybe some sort of partnership with currency, defence co-operation etc.
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1,846 posts
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 11:41:51 GMT
Post by NeilVHughes on Jul 30, 2020 11:41:51 GMT
frappuccino , many Companies will look to ship from the EU via Ireland, it is easier from a paperwork perspective to ship products manufactured outside mainland U.K. through the EU as there will be no export issues if manufactured in the EU and only one submission if from outside the EU. Any UK Companies selling items procured in the EU then sold to NI will need to import to the U.K. and then export to NI completing the required Customs paperwork twice and therefore increasing admin costs which EU suppliers will not need to. Rosslare is likely to become a significant Port as Holyhead and Stranraer lose their transit Ports status to Ireland. Already Amazon have said any U.K. sellers using their services to sell in the EU will need stock in EU Warehouses to continue shipping through Amazon in the EU as unable to support the individual order level of export compliance. This will apply even with or without a Deal as the only way it could be removed is if we stay in the Customs Union.
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 12:27:43 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 12:27:43 GMT
You may know that I voted for Brexit and still support it. But I think we do need to get things sorted as a no deal isn't in any parties interests but with the pandemic things have been skewered sideays.
One wildcard might be if any country gets the vaccine then that country has huge negogiating power.
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4,458 posts
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 12:35:29 GMT
via mobile
Post by poster J on Jul 30, 2020 12:35:29 GMT
So how are they going to handle the logistics of Northern Ireland? I mean the Good Friday Agreement means they have must have free travel to Ireland but then citizens of the EU can sneak in through Northern Ireland via Ireland? Hmm... Somehow I doubt 'The troubles' will return though. Irish don't face as much descrimination as before plus the younger generations prefers to sort things out via the ballot box rather than civil war. The UK will not withstand the twin pressures of Brexit and Covid. I fully expect Scotland and Northern Ireland to cut ties within a decade, Wales following later. The best way to stop that would be a fully federal state but I think the will to campaign for that has taken a massive hit. I don’t think Northern Ireland would initially vote for a fully united Ireland, maybe some sort of partnership with currency, defence co-operation etc. Northern Ireland doesn't have the economic capabilities to be self-sustaining, nor sufficient natural resources. It is also, I believe, still (just) majority unionist, and a partnership with Ireland in any formal shape or form will not get through unless mandated by a referendum or if the Stormont institutional structure is torn up entirely, which can't happen under the Good Friday Agreement (which is why it is so politically inefficient).
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1,846 posts
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 12:42:34 GMT
Post by NeilVHughes on Jul 30, 2020 12:42:34 GMT
The narrative coming from the EU at the moment is that No Deal from their perspective is their preferred option and not a disaster as in the long term it may make the EU stronger, they only need to protect themselves from any negative spin and will therefore maintain openness whilst sticking to the level playing field stance.
Individually most EU Countries will at worst lose less than 3% of their Export GDP If they stop shipping to the U.K., COVID means that there is excess capacity in the EU at the moment and most things previously sourced in the UK will be easily sourced from an EU Country mitigating the cross EU nation GDP % losses.
To hamper U.K. free access will benefit the EU COVID recovery and the U.K. will need to capitulate as they did in the NI solution in the Withdrawal Agreement to continue tariff free EU access remembering that the Customs hurdles remain whatever happens with a Deal as remaining in the Customs Union impacts our Sovereignty the core remit of Brexit.
This is not a dogmatic Brexit Position but an economic analysis on the numbers alone, there is very little made in the U.K. that cannot be made in the EU.
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 12:49:56 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 12:49:56 GMT
NI Unionists cleary wouldn't want to cut ties and if NI did go seperate the Republicans would be demanding a United Ireland.
With Covid Nicola Sturgeon has been seen as handling the crisis well and there may be more talk of another referendum but the furloughing scheme came from London. Would Scotland risk anything if we have further outbreaks and this sort of support may be needed. If things ever get back to normal I can see her looking for another crack at it.
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1,846 posts
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 12:50:45 GMT
Post by NeilVHughes on Jul 30, 2020 12:50:45 GMT
Northern Ireland in all but name left the UK on the 31st Jan, in all but taxation and Governance Northern Ireland is an EU Nation.
There will be no major moment but Northern Ireland will sleepwalk to an united Ireland as their focus moves to closer trade with the EU which means closer ties with Dublin than London.
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4,596 posts
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 13:01:51 GMT
via mobile
Post by Someone in a tree on Jul 30, 2020 13:01:51 GMT
Facebook is telling me that Stanley Johnson is applying for French citizenship. Such a proud father
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 13:35:01 GMT
via mobile
Post by frappuccino on Jul 30, 2020 13:35:01 GMT
People say Nicola Sturgeon will bring in more right wing policies while distracting people about a Scottish referendum. E.g. "SNP is more right wing than Labour but I will vote for SNP because of their stance on Scottish independence even though I prefer Labour's policies"
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4,038 posts
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 14:25:20 GMT
Post by kathryn on Jul 30, 2020 14:25:20 GMT
The UK will not withstand the twin pressures of Brexit and Covid. I fully expect Scotland and Northern Ireland to cut ties within a decade, Wales following later. The best way to stop that would be a fully federal state but I think the will to campaign for that has taken a massive hit. I don’t think Northern Ireland would initially vote for a fully united Ireland, maybe some sort of partnership with currency, defence co-operation etc. Northern Ireland doesn't have the economic capabilities to be self-sustaining, nor sufficient natural resources. It is also, I believe, still (just) majority unionist, and a partnership with Ireland in any formal shape or form will not get through unless mandated by a referendum or if the Stormont institutional structure is torn up entirely, which can't happen under the Good Friday Agreement (which is why it is so politically inefficient). Will it stay majority unionist, though, if screwed over by a government in Westminster that hasn't taken their needs into account? Particularly among the younger generation - the youngsters are used to not being impacted by a border with either Ireland or the UK, and not having their daily lives disrupted or endangered by the Troubles. What are they actually getting out of being part of a Union that treats them like an afterthought?
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4,458 posts
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 14:32:10 GMT
via mobile
Post by poster J on Jul 30, 2020 14:32:10 GMT
Northern Ireland doesn't have the economic capabilities to be self-sustaining, nor sufficient natural resources. It is also, I believe, still (just) majority unionist, and a partnership with Ireland in any formal shape or form will not get through unless mandated by a referendum or if the Stormont institutional structure is torn up entirely, which can't happen under the Good Friday Agreement (which is why it is so politically inefficient). Will it stay majority unionist, though, if screwed over by a government in Westminster that hasn't taken their needs into account? Particularly among the younger generation - the youngsters are used to not being impacted by a border with either Ireland or the UK, and not having their daily lives disrupted or endangered by the Troubles. What are they actually getting out of being part of a Union that treats them like an afterthought? It shouldn't, but it will, because there are too many people who grow up indoctrinated into the extremist ends of the political spectrum. You only have to walk down certain streets in the suburbs of Belfast (or anywhere else in the country) and see the amount of flags, divisive murals (not all murals, but some) and painted kerb stones to realise why some things in NI will sadly never change. The local news still regularly contains reports of paramilitary shootings and arson attacks, and there are sizeable sections of NI society that are still hugely narrow-minded and intolerant. That is part of the reason I left.
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2,206 posts
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 15:02:52 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 30, 2020 15:02:52 GMT
People say Nicola Sturgeon will bring in more right wing policies while distracting people about a Scottish referendum. E.g. "SNP is more right wing than Labour but I will vote for SNP because of their stance on Scottish independence even though I prefer Labour's policies" More right wing than Starmer's Labour Party?? Tory party isn't it
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2,206 posts
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 15:04:44 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 30, 2020 15:04:44 GMT
Will it stay majority unionist, though, if screwed over by a government in Westminster that hasn't taken their needs into account? Particularly among the younger generation - the youngsters are used to not being impacted by a border with either Ireland or the UK, and not having their daily lives disrupted or endangered by the Troubles. What are they actually getting out of being part of a Union that treats them like an afterthought? It shouldn't, but it will, because there are too many people who grow up indoctrinated into the extremist ends of the political spectrum. You only have to walk down certain streets in the suburbs of Belfast (or anywhere else in the country) and see the amount of flags, divisive murals (not all murals, but some) and painted kerb stones to realise why some things in NI will sadly never change. The local news still regularly contains reports of paramilitary shootings and arson attacks, and there are sizeable sections of NI society that are still hugely narrow-minded and intolerant. That is part of the reason I left. Aren't catholics catching up protestants in terms of population?
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 16:04:46 GMT
via mobile
Post by frappuccino on Jul 30, 2020 16:04:46 GMT
People say Nicola Sturgeon will bring in more right wing policies while distracting people about a Scottish referendum. E.g. "SNP is more right wing than Labour but I will vote for SNP because of their stance on Scottish independence even though I prefer Labour's policies" More right wing than Starmer's Labour Party?? Tory party isn't it Well the example would have worked better with Corbyn. Haha!
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1,846 posts
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Post by NeilVHughes on Jul 30, 2020 19:55:01 GMT
One of things a lot of my family are looking forward to happening is the return of old style lightbulbs - their hatred to the new energy saving ones holds no bounds.
I bet the old ones do not return through.
It is fascinating how such a minor issue is a big problem for them.
basdfg , the EU followed the U.K. lead. The UK government announced in 2007 that incandescent bulbs would be phased out by 2011.In 2008, the Irish government announced a phase-out of the sale of any light bulbs with a luminous efficiency of less than 16 lumens per watt. Shortly afterwards, all member states of the EU agreed to a progressive phase-out of incandescent light bulbs by 2012. it is one of the myths that the EU imposed regulations on the U.K., a lot of EU Regulations were based on the U.K. BS Standards which were considered world leading (our love of bureaucracy as Boris would say is World Beating). The universal ISO 9000 family of Quality standards were derived from the U.K. BS5750 standards which themselves were derived from UK's Def Stan 05-21 and 05–24 Procurement Standards to increase the quality of procured armaments.
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Brexit
Jul 31, 2020 9:17:59 GMT
Post by jojo on Jul 31, 2020 9:17:59 GMT
People say Nicola Sturgeon will bring in more right wing policies while distracting people about a Scottish referendum. E.g. "SNP is more right wing than Labour but I will vote for SNP because of their stance on Scottish independence even though I prefer Labour's policies" More right wing than Starmer's Labour Party?? Tory party isn't it For many years the SNP were a right wing party, and until fairly recently were proposing Scotland becomes a low tax state, or at least following the lead of the Republic of Ireland in giving tax breaks to the multi-nationals. It was only when they realised they needed to win votes from Labour that they shifted emphasis to social justice. But it was still based on the idea of not wanting to share the oil money with the rest of the UK. Now there's no tax revenue from oil, and Scotland would miss out on additional spend equivalent to the budget for the NHS in Scotland, and the idea of a left-wing Scexit to benefit the poor is less realistic than the imagined left-wing Brexit. It's all very well for the wealthy ideological nationalists to claim they are OK with a 'minor' reduction in wealth in exchange for 'sovereignty', but I think even most of them underestimate the immediate reduction in budget that would come with the end of Barnett, never mind the hit on the economy, or what happens when the disaster capitalists get involved. At present (pre COVID), the Scottish budget is running on a deficit of about 8% which is sustainable within the UK, but not as an independent state. The EU would require it to be no more than 3% so not only would it take years to be eligible to join, it would only happen after years of austerity that would make the last decade seem like a time of plenty. It's not just a case of cutting services or raising taxes, or dreaming of record breaking growth, to bring the deficit down. Then there's the question of currency, and while it's possible to keep using the pound, using another country's currency means less control over fiscal policy. Establishing a new currency is very, very expensive, and any country without an established currency, or healthy economy can only borrow on much higher interest rates, which adds to the expense. Then, like Brexit, there's the hit on the economy from creating new barriers with your main trading partners. Hoping that increased exports to non-UK countries will make up for it, is akin to the Tories announcing they're working on a great new deal with Australia. That said, Brexit was a terrible idea that will make us poorer and people voted for it, so logic doesn't always get a look in when people have convinced themselves of their own national superiority, and have believed politicians who have spent years blaming Brussels/Westminster for their own failings. Ironically, so much of the Brexit campaign used the messaging of the 2014 nationalist one. No voters were called anti-Scottish, and any question about ensuring public services would function properly were batted away with claims of fear mongering. Healthy scepticism was labelled as cowardice and so on. Any problems could be eliminated if only people were more positive. And if you thought banging on about WW2 was cringe-worthy, we had references to Bannockburn, which was exactly 700 years earlier. In short, the SNP try to be all things to all people. They try to win votes from Labour voters by claiming left-leaning credentials, which are not compatible with their nationalist agenda. Then they claim green credentials, which was at odds with their assumption of record North Sea oil extraction which was to fund their nationalist agenda. They were cutting council tax, a very Tory policy, while framing it as a tax cut to help the poor! Already the SNP have been sneaking in cuts to council budgets that were well in excess of the cuts from Westminster during austerity. They just blamed those cuts on Westminster, and used it as a reason to become independent. The spare money being spent on SNP vanity projects, and pay rises for the growing number of SNP ministers in the Scottish Government. In case you didn't know, Sturgeon's salary as First Minister is higher than Boris Johnson as PM, which is higher than Mark Drakeford as the First Minister of Wales. Second jobs come into play here - I'm not feeling sorry for Johnson here, but while Gordon Brown was giving the British PM a pay cut, the SNP were organising pay increases for Scottish Government ministers and justifying it as patriotic.
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2,206 posts
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Brexit
Jul 31, 2020 11:44:42 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 31, 2020 11:44:42 GMT
More right wing than Starmer's Labour Party?? Tory party isn't it For many years the SNP were a right wing party, and until fairly recently were proposing Scotland becomes a low tax state, or at least following the lead of the Republic of Ireland in giving tax breaks to the multi-nationals. It was only when they realised they needed to win votes from Labour that they shifted emphasis to social justice. But it was still based on the idea of not wanting to share the oil money with the rest of the UK. Now there's no tax revenue from oil, and Scotland would miss out on additional spend equivalent to the budget for the NHS in Scotland, and the idea of a left-wing Scexit to benefit the poor is less realistic than the imagined left-wing Brexit. It's all very well for the wealthy ideological nationalists to claim they are OK with a 'minor' reduction in wealth in exchange for 'sovereignty', but I think even most of them underestimate the immediate reduction in budget that would come with the end of Barnett, never mind the hit on the economy, or what happens when the disaster capitalists get involved. At present (pre COVID), the Scottish budget is running on a deficit of about 8% which is sustainable within the UK, but not as an independent state. The EU would require it to be no more than 3% so not only would it take years to be eligible to join, it would only happen after years of austerity that would make the last decade seem like a time of plenty. It's not just a case of cutting services or raising taxes, or dreaming of record breaking growth, to bring the deficit down. Then there's the question of currency, and while it's possible to keep using the pound, using another country's currency means less control over fiscal policy. Establishing a new currency is very, very expensive, and any country without an established currency, or healthy economy can only borrow on much higher interest rates, which adds to the expense. Then, like Brexit, there's the hit on the economy from creating new barriers with your main trading partners. Hoping that increased exports to non-UK countries will make up for it, is akin to the Tories announcing they're working on a great new deal with Australia. That said, Brexit was a terrible idea that will make us poorer and people voted for it, so logic doesn't always get a look in when people have convinced themselves of their own national superiority, and have believed politicians who have spent years blaming Brussels/Westminster for their own failings. Ironically, so much of the Brexit campaign used the messaging of the 2014 nationalist one. No voters were called anti-Scottish, and any question about ensuring public services would function properly were batted away with claims of fear mongering. Healthy scepticism was labelled as cowardice and so on. Any problems could be eliminated if only people were more positive. And if you thought banging on about WW2 was cringe-worthy, we had references to Bannockburn, which was exactly 700 years earlier. In short, the SNP try to be all things to all people. They try to win votes from Labour voters by claiming left-leaning credentials, which are not compatible with their nationalist agenda. Then they claim green credentials, which was at odds with their assumption of record North Sea oil extraction which was to fund their nationalist agenda. They were cutting council tax, a very Tory policy, while framing it as a tax cut to help the poor! Already the SNP have been sneaking in cuts to council budgets that were well in excess of the cuts from Westminster during austerity. They just blamed those cuts on Westminster, and used it as a reason to become independent. The spare money being spent on SNP vanity projects, and pay rises for the growing number of SNP ministers in the Scottish Government. In case you didn't know, Sturgeon's salary as First Minister is higher than Boris Johnson as PM, which is higher than Mark Drakeford as the First Minister of Wales. Second jobs come into play here - I'm not feeling sorry for Johnson here, but while Gordon Brown was giving the British PM a pay cut, the SNP were organising pay increases for Scottish Government ministers and justifying it as patriotic. So not a fan of the SNP?
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2,206 posts
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Brexit
Jul 31, 2020 14:40:03 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 31, 2020 14:40:03 GMT
More right wing than Starmer's Labour Party?? Tory party isn't it For many years the SNP were a right wing party, and until fairly recently were proposing Scotland becomes a low tax state, or at least following the lead of the Republic of Ireland in giving tax breaks to the multi-nationals. It was only when they realised they needed to win votes from Labour that they shifted emphasis to social justice. But it was still based on the idea of not wanting to share the oil money with the rest of the UK. Now there's no tax revenue from oil, and Scotland would miss out on additional spend equivalent to the budget for the NHS in Scotland, and the idea of a left-wing Scexit to benefit the poor is less realistic than the imagined left-wing Brexit. It's all very well for the wealthy ideological nationalists to claim they are OK with a 'minor' reduction in wealth in exchange for 'sovereignty', but I think even most of them underestimate the immediate reduction in budget that would come with the end of Barnett, never mind the hit on the economy, or what happens when the disaster capitalists get involved. At present (pre COVID), the Scottish budget is running on a deficit of about 8% which is sustainable within the UK, but not as an independent state. The EU would require it to be no more than 3% so not only would it take years to be eligible to join, it would only happen after years of austerity that would make the last decade seem like a time of plenty. It's not just a case of cutting services or raising taxes, or dreaming of record breaking growth, to bring the deficit down. Then there's the question of currency, and while it's possible to keep using the pound, using another country's currency means less control over fiscal policy. Establishing a new currency is very, very expensive, and any country without an established currency, or healthy economy can only borrow on much higher interest rates, which adds to the expense. Then, like Brexit, there's the hit on the economy from creating new barriers with your main trading partners. Hoping that increased exports to non-UK countries will make up for it, is akin to the Tories announcing they're working on a great new deal with Australia. That said, Brexit was a terrible idea that will make us poorer and people voted for it, so logic doesn't always get a look in when people have convinced themselves of their own national superiority, and have believed politicians who have spent years blaming Brussels/Westminster for their own failings. Ironically, so much of the Brexit campaign used the messaging of the 2014 nationalist one. No voters were called anti-Scottish, and any question about ensuring public services would function properly were batted away with claims of fear mongering. Healthy scepticism was labelled as cowardice and so on. Any problems could be eliminated if only people were more positive. And if you thought banging on about WW2 was cringe-worthy, we had references to Bannockburn, which was exactly 700 years earlier. In short, the SNP try to be all things to all people. They try to win votes from Labour voters by claiming left-leaning credentials, which are not compatible with their nationalist agenda. Then they claim green credentials, which was at odds with their assumption of record North Sea oil extraction which was to fund their nationalist agenda. They were cutting council tax, a very Tory policy, while framing it as a tax cut to help the poor! Already the SNP have been sneaking in cuts to council budgets that were well in excess of the cuts from Westminster during austerity. They just blamed those cuts on Westminster, and used it as a reason to become independent. The spare money being spent on SNP vanity projects, and pay rises for the growing number of SNP ministers in the Scottish Government. In case you didn't know, Sturgeon's salary as First Minister is higher than Boris Johnson as PM, which is higher than Mark Drakeford as the First Minister of Wales. Second jobs come into play here - I'm not feeling sorry for Johnson here, but while Gordon Brown was giving the British PM a pay cut, the SNP were organising pay increases for Scottish Government ministers and justifying it as patriotic. Does Brexit make people poorer in Scotland but Independence and if Scotland is able to join join the EU make them a little richer than a UK Brexit Scotland?
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