1,177 posts
|
Post by joem on Jul 5, 2023 14:52:27 GMT
James Graham is an amazing playwright, he has an uncanny finger on the country's pulse and manages to make dramas out of news stories, political events, whatever.... but always finding a dramatic conflict with which to explore ideas beyond the basic narrative.
This is no different and I believe he may achieved the wonderful feat of bringing new audiences into the theatre. The audience (crowd?) on Monday night was somewhere between a theatre audience and a football crowd, joining in on chants they recognised and cheering mentions of the teams they follow.
It was a play of two halves. The first was I think more exciting, pure entertainment, the audience getting that little thrill where they recognise characters and events but with the heightened reality that being on a stage brings to them. Although there wasn't a ball in sight and I knew the outcomes, some of the recreated penalty shootouts were genuinely tense and dramatic.
The second half where Graham brings in other themes is slightly (very slightly) less absorbing but it makes its points and does so effectively. Racism, leadership, identity - what it means to be English (there is no English anthem in football, only the UK one), violence... the British do beat themselves up a lot, we are no longer world leaders in football hooliganism and haven't been for years. I was reminded at the conclusion of Larkin's "An Arundel Tomb" - quite something, for a play about what is still such a macho sport to evoke these feelings.
Can you enjoy this play if you know nothing about football and care even less? Well, of course. It is a potent piece. I don't have to be a fan of world wars to appreciate Downfall.
Great work from the ensemble and the high standards you'd expect from Joe Fiennes and Gina Mckee. I think Graham's got another winner here, I expect this to transfer to the West End. The National is on quite a run! Well done lads.
|
|
110 posts
|
Post by Sotongal on Jul 5, 2023 16:43:38 GMT
James Graham is an amazing playwright, he has an uncanny finger on the country's pulse and manages to make dramas out of news stories, political events, whatever.... but always finding a dramatic conflict with which to explore ideas beyond the basic narrative. This is no different and I believe he may achieved the wonderful feat of bringing new audiences into the theatre. The audience (crowd?) on Monday night was somewhere between a theatre audience and a football crowd, joining in on chants they recognised and cheering mentions of the teams they follow. It was a play of two halves. The first was I think more exciting, pure entertainment, the audience getting that little thrill where they recognise characters and events but with the heightened reality that being on a stage brings to them. Although there wasn't a ball in sight and I knew the outcomes, some of the recreated penalty shootouts were genuinely tense and dramatic. The second half where Graham brings in other themes is slightly (very slightly) less absorbing but it makes its points and does so effectively. Racism, leadership, identity - what it means to be English (there is no English anthem in football, only the UK one), violence... the British do beat themselves up a lot, we are no longer world leaders in football hooliganism and haven't been for years. I was reminded at the conclusion of Larkin's "An Arundel Tomb" - quite something, for a play about what is still such a macho sport to evoke these feelings. Can you enjoy this play if you know nothing about football and care even less? Well, of course. It is a potent piece. I don't have to be a fan of world wars to appreciate Downfall. Great work from the ensemble and the high standards you'd expect from Joe Fiennes and Gina Mckee. I think Graham's got another winner here, I expect this to transfer to the West End. The National is on quite a run! Well done lads. We were there Monday evening too and I agree with your points. The first half was exciting, there was an aim,they were all focusing and fully going for it, but in the second half it wandered around a bit- almost like Graham was depicting in the various second half topics the uncertainty the players and Southgate have felt, about finding their way through those points joem has listed. Really enjoyable production. I once sat next to Southgate at a football lunch and he’s a really nice man.
|
|
885 posts
|
Post by lonlad on Jul 8, 2023 12:49:45 GMT
I hear from friends in the company that Will Fletcher is on both shows today as Gareth Southgate. If that is so, here's hoping he nails it in what is bar none the most exciting play in town.
|
|
4,564 posts
|
Post by Mark on Jul 8, 2023 16:08:54 GMT
I was there, and he absolutely did nail it!
What a wonderful play, I’m not into football at all but this was brilliant from start to finish, expertly crafted, great humour, and just really bloody good! Another knockout from the National Theatre!
|
|
649 posts
|
Post by theatremiss on Jul 9, 2023 12:58:48 GMT
I hear from friends in the company that Will Fletcher is on both shows today as Gareth Southgate. If that is so, here's hoping he nails it in what is bar none the most exciting play in town. I was there for the matinee. I did feel a bit meh not to see Fiennes, but blooming heck Will blew me away with his performance. Does anyone know if this was his first time on? If so he appeared quite at ease with the role. I did manage to snag a single back of stalls seat in a few weeks so I can see the play again, and possibly see Fiennes, but I won’t mind if I see Will too. does anyone think this might get a transfer?
|
|
|
Post by c4ndyc4ne on Jul 9, 2023 14:08:42 GMT
I hear from friends in the company that Will Fletcher is on both shows today as Gareth Southgate. If that is so, here's hoping he nails it in what is bar none the most exciting play in town. I was there for the matinee. I did feel a bit meh not to see Fiennes, but blooming heck Will blew me away with his performance. Does anyone know if this was his first time on? If so he appeared quite at ease with the role. I did manage to snag a single back of stalls seat in a few weeks so I can see the play again, and possibly see Fiennes, but I won’t mind if I see Will too. does anyone think this might get a transfer? They’d be foolish not to transfer it… especially as the 2024 men’s euros approach
|
|
649 posts
|
Post by theatremiss on Jul 9, 2023 16:01:51 GMT
I was there for the matinee. I did feel a bit meh not to see Fiennes, but blooming heck Will blew me away with his performance. Does anyone know if this was his first time on? If so he appeared quite at ease with the role. I did manage to snag a single back of stalls seat in a few weeks so I can see the play again, and possibly see Fiennes, but I won’t mind if I see Will too. does anyone think this might get a transfer? They’d be foolish not to transfer it… especially as the 2024 men’s euros approach It’s what I was thinking. Wonder if they’ll keep Fiennes? I also see they are filming it too
|
|
4,453 posts
|
Post by Being Alive on Jul 9, 2023 17:27:53 GMT
Where on earth are they going to put it though without serious redesign and essentially losing the grandness it gets from the Olivier?
I reckon a chance of NT Live but no transfer personally.
|
|
986 posts
|
Post by nash16 on Jul 9, 2023 20:16:23 GMT
I was there for the matinee. I did feel a bit meh not to see Fiennes, but blooming heck Will blew me away with his performance. Does anyone know if this was his first time on? If so he appeared quite at ease with the role. I did manage to snag a single back of stalls seat in a few weeks so I can see the play again, and possibly see Fiennes, but I won’t mind if I see Will too. does anyone think this might get a transfer? They’d be foolish not to transfer it… especially as the 2024 men’s euros approach Back to the Olivier next summer (May to August) for the Euros, as predicted by many on here, then to the Gillian Lynne almost straight after for a limited run.
|
|
1,343 posts
|
Post by Dave B on Jul 9, 2023 20:28:22 GMT
Back to the Olivier next summer (May to August) for the Euros, as predicted by many on here, then to the Gillian Lynne almost straight after for a limited run. Nye for Feb - May and then Coriolanus afterwards from Aug?
|
|
3,071 posts
|
Post by Rory on Jul 9, 2023 21:39:26 GMT
They’d be foolish not to transfer it… especially as the 2024 men’s euros approach Back to the Olivier next summer (May to August) for the Euros, as predicted by many on here, then to the Gillian Lynne almost straight after for a limited run. Is this what's happening then?
|
|
|
Post by c4ndyc4ne on Jul 9, 2023 22:56:57 GMT
Back to the Olivier next summer (May to August) for the Euros, as predicted by many on here, then to the Gillian Lynne almost straight after for a limited run. Nye for Feb - May and then Coriolanus afterwards from Aug? Where does asssassins fit in there - between Nye and Dear England?
|
|
4,453 posts
|
Post by Being Alive on Jul 9, 2023 23:56:54 GMT
They’d be foolish not to transfer it… especially as the 2024 men’s euros approach Back to the Olivier next summer (May to August) for the Euros, as predicted by many on here, then to the Gillian Lynne almost straight after for a limited run. Well this DOES make more sense
|
|
1,343 posts
|
Post by Dave B on Jul 10, 2023 7:16:00 GMT
Nye for Feb - May and then Coriolanus afterwards from Aug? Where does asssassins fit in there - between Nye and Dear England? Is that going to transfer to NT and Olivier? Time seems tight if so.
|
|
4,564 posts
|
Post by Mark on Jul 10, 2023 9:15:17 GMT
It’s too good, and quite frankly, too mainstream and good an opportunity for the National to make some money, for it to not have a future life.
|
|
6,319 posts
|
Post by Jon on Jul 10, 2023 12:28:28 GMT
I'm guessing SATSE won't be open ended if Dear England is planned for late 2024 at the Gillian Lynne.
|
|
87 posts
|
Post by greenswan on Jul 12, 2023 7:10:02 GMT
Saw this last night based on reviews on here. A crowd pleaser and the audience was noticeably younger than I have often experienced it at the NT. And it definitely works as a play, even if you haven't watched football before - comes with the bonus that the game results are a surprise. Not sure it would stand up to repeated viewings but a great one off watch for me.
First half on the classic dramatic arc, second half is a bit weaker and meanders but not excessively. Some issues are only touched on in passing. Actors were great, staging excellent. This is genuinely entertaining to watch, even from the back of the circle, as the choreography made brilliant use of the space. Touching and funny moments are well interleaved, keeping it engaging and well balanced.
The tory prime ministers for me fall into 'have to laugh, so you don't cry' but yes, the easy caricature covers the damage to the country. The ending is lovely, well done and very upbeat. But I did walk out thinking that I disagreed with the sense of hope. I don't perceive England to have become 'kinder' in the years covered in the play - quite the opposite in fact.
|
|
|
Post by c4ndyc4ne on Jul 12, 2023 22:18:40 GMT
Saw this last night based on reviews on here. A crowd pleaser and the audience was noticeably younger than I have often experienced it at the NT. And it definitely works as a play, even if you haven't watched football before - comes with the bonus that the game results are a surprise. Not sure it would stand up to repeated viewings but a great one off watch for me. First half on the classic dramatic arc, second half is a bit weaker and meanders but not excessively. Some issues are only touched on in passing. Actors were great, staging excellent. This is genuinely entertaining to watch, even from the back of the circle, as the choreography made brilliant use of the space. Touching and funny moments are well interleaved, keeping it engaging and well balanced. The tory prime ministers for me fall into 'have to laugh, so you don't cry' but yes, the easy caricature covers the damage to the country. The ending is lovely, well done and very upbeat. But I did walk out thinking that I disagreed with the sense of hope. I don't perceive England to have become 'kinder' in the years covered in the play - quite the opposite in fact. Interesting take on the ending. I felt that Graham acknowledged how England as a nation had become less 'kind' and more fractured (ie more vocally racist, Brexit fall-out etc), but that what the England team represented, and the new form of unity that Southgate and co fostered, may suggest that in the future the nation could find a sense of unity and common ground. So it's hopeful, yes, but it's not saying that at a national level we're there yet.
|
|
|
Post by mrnutz on Jul 13, 2023 11:31:24 GMT
This is as excellent as everyone says it is. I absolutely loved it last night. Moving and hilarious in parts, too.
Interesting to write something that I feel only works right now - you wouldn't want to see this in two years, unless it gets an update to close Gareth's story.
|
|
259 posts
|
Post by theatrenerd on Jul 14, 2023 21:12:23 GMT
Where on earth are they going to put it though without serious redesign and essentially losing the grandness it gets from the Olivier? I reckon a chance of NT Live but no transfer personally. It is being filmed next Wednesday matinee, so probably a (delayed) NT Live broadcast or it could just be for archive.
|
|
|
Post by theatrelover97 on Jul 14, 2023 23:35:38 GMT
This is as excellent as everyone says it is. I absolutely loved it last night. Moving and hilarious in parts, too. Interesting to write something that I feel only works right now - you wouldn't want to see this in two years, unless it gets an update to close Gareth's story. I agree I loved but the ending only works as it does until next June/July. Post the Euros it won't work quite so well (The audience will have facts the characters don't) unless it's changed to reference that. It would be slightly weird to see in September 2024 if England have won the Euros and Sputhgate and the team get their happy ending or haven't and Southgate quit having got close again or maybe ended his time on a weak note after a poor Euros. Plus also the exit of Dele scene doesn't fully work quite so well now after his interview this week. I can see a TV version based on the story coming at some point.
|
|
|
Post by alessia on Jul 15, 2023 5:03:13 GMT
Finally saw this last night after the cancellation a few weeks ago. I had a great time, there isn’t much to add to what others have already said. RF embodies Southgate perfectly (as much as I have seen him on tv which is admittedly not much lol) and Will Close was incredibly good and hilarious as Harry Kane. I was not expecting to laugh quite as much as I did throughout. The only bit I found a little cringey was the introduction of the various prime ministers. Everything else was joyous and a fun night at the theatre. The audience adored this and everyone was standing and singing. Wes Anderson was in the bookshop before the play and again at the interval, I think most ppl didn’t recognise him (was anyone there last night? Did you see him?) - I was a little starstruck I must admit! He went to see The Motive.
|
|
404 posts
|
Post by dlevi on Jul 15, 2023 8:47:48 GMT
I saw this last night and thought it was terrific - has someone on here already said: It's Chariots of Fire meets Ted Lasso put through the wonderful mind of James Graham? If not , let me be the first. Smart, emotional, funny and wonderfully acted by the entire company - those who were supposed to be cartoons, were and those who were living breathing and flawed human beings were as well - Rupert Goold and Mr Graham have achieved that rare balance. This is genuine "Populist" theatre at its best and the National is the perfect home for it.
|
|
|
Post by theoracle on Jul 15, 2023 11:23:32 GMT
James Graham strikes again… this is rather glorious. Very well paced, I can’t believe it was almost 3hrs long - it felt like 1hr 45. The characters are all very well developed and I was amazed by how well the piece transports you back to such recent history. I really liked the optimistic tone of the piece personally - it shows you that Britain is still a great place with institutions to be proud of despite what certain outlets might want to tell us. Fiennes and McKee both brilliant in their roles respectively. Rupert Goold confidently fills the space too - my heart felt very full watching this. British Theatre at its best
|
|
4,453 posts
|
Post by Being Alive on Jul 15, 2023 12:42:15 GMT
Having heard this is coming back next year I'd imagine it's for archive
|
|
258 posts
|
Post by jm25 on Jul 15, 2023 17:17:51 GMT
I absolutely adored this. I figured it'd be a pretty safe bet for me since I'm quite into football, but I didn't expect to find it as funny, moving and joyous as I did. Joseph Fiennes is uncannily good as Gareth Southgate, and Will Close's Harry Kane is spot on. But I also thought it was clear that the chap playing Eric Dier had really done his homework too!
I'd love to see this again at some point. Haven't seen an audience enjoy itself so much in ages!
|
|
|
Post by swill on Jul 19, 2023 13:09:55 GMT
This being written only after the Qatar World Cup (which was only 5 months ago from rehearsals…) makes this urgent piece even more incredible, and according to Graham, its minimalistic but crucial set being designed before a full draft!
Similarly, only meeting Southgate after rehearsals had begun, James Graham’s writing somehow manages to fully make it feel that Joseph Fiennes (alongside his performance) IS Southgate.
|
|
|
Post by clarefh on Jul 19, 2023 15:41:06 GMT
Also loved this and don’t really have anything to add to what has been said.
What’s been great is everyone I know who has seen it seems to have loved it - from a really broad spectrum of friends, those who haven’t been to theatre before to regular theatregoers who have been a bit jaded of late. Even my definitely non theatre going teenage son loves it. It seems to manage that rare balance of being accessible, enough pazzaz in the staging but with a heart that touches people.
|
|
|
Post by sfsusan on Jul 20, 2023 13:34:12 GMT
Can you enjoy this play if you know nothing about football and care even less? I'm an American so don't know anything about football, don't really care about sports, and don't know the people or events involved. I loved it! (As did some American friends who'd seen it earlier and urged me to go.) The play deals with mostly universal themes, so is easily relevant to anyone. I did think the various prime ministers seemed out of place, being very 'Spitting Image' in an otherwise more naturalistic play. I thought it was interesting the use of the women's team's triumph, which I suppose was meant to start the national healing that Southgate called for. I realized at the end that I'd been in London for the Euro 2020 Men's Final and the violent aftermath (both in the streets and online). At the time, I hadn't really appreciated the background or the significance. Now I want to follow next year's Euros to see the next chapter in the 'story'.
|
|
649 posts
|
Post by theatremiss on Jul 21, 2023 22:18:02 GMT
Saw this he other week and I’ve just been to see it again tonight. Absolutely love this. First visit I saw Will as Southgate and as I’ve already said he was fabulous. Tonight I saw Fiennes and he was truly spectacular. The mannerisms,walk, hand gestures were spot on. What a wonderful piece of theatre it is. Now can I squeeze in one more trip?
|
|