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Post by lynette on May 6, 2024 18:23:22 GMT
I noticed the RSC has turned one set of gents loos near the Swan Theatre into gender neutral ones but left the ladies as it is. That seemed a bit unfair although the loos at the RSC Theatre end of the building are still male and female I think. Would the simple idea if there was space to have a gender neutral loo like how you have a disabled one along with male and female ones. There needs to be a loo provision for people who are not male or female but there does need to be women's only loos too IMO. This works quite well. In my carefully executed survey, that is sitting there waiting for the show to start, i would say that I have seen a women use the gender neutral but mainly fellas ( some of whom give it a looksee before committing to going in ) and the women’s loo is much more used by women before a show.
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Post by scarletmood on May 6, 2024 18:27:22 GMT
This works quite well. In my carefully executed survey, that is sitting there waiting for the show to start, i would say that I have seen a women use the gender neutral but mainly fellas ( some of whom give it a looksee before committing to going in ) and the women’s loo is much more used by women before a show. Fair enough, I was just taking it from an equality standpoint. I've only used the GN loos once and didn't realise it had been changed until I walked in and saw no urinals as you don't always look at the loo signage when you know them by memory.
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4,048 posts
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Post by kathryn on May 7, 2024 9:47:20 GMT
I noticed the RSC has turned one set of gents loos near the Swan Theatre into gender neutral ones but left the ladies as it is. That seemed a bit unfair although the loos at the RSC Theatre end of the building are still male and female I think. Would the simple idea if there was space to have a gender neutral loo like how you have a disabled one along with male and female ones. There needs to be a loo provision for people who are not male or female but there does need to be women's only loos too IMO. If you’re going to make one loo ‘gender neutral’ that is the only equitable way to do it - we all know that theatres never have enough ladies’ loos but the men can breeze in and out. Losing one gent’s loo to gender neutral won’t lead to queues for them,, and potentially reduces queues for the ladies’ if women are willing to use them. On a side note, there are no people who are not either male or female. Even people with DSDs are classifiable as male or female.
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Post by scarletmood on May 7, 2024 12:34:08 GMT
Interesting point about DSD. I had to look up what that stood for and I assume it is another term for someone born intersex or a hermaphrodite. I am being very careful to try and give my views a balanced argument to protect women's rights but not discriminate against those who are genuinely transitioning etc.
I fully agree that there is a trend to change pronouns or identify as something different among certain people almost like how people might change religion or to be "trendy". This is far different from those who have life changing and dangerous surgery.
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Post by winonaforever on May 7, 2024 13:20:09 GMT
Interesting point about DSD. I had to look up what that stood for and I assume it is another term for someone born intersex or a hermaphrodite. I am being very careful to try and give my views a balanced argument to protect women's rights but not discriminate against those who are genuinely transitioning etc. I fully agree that there is a trend to change pronouns or identify as something different among certain people almost like how people might change religion or to be "trendy". This is far different from those who have life changing and dangerous surgery. But most "transwomen" don't have surgery (execept for fake breasts) Well over 90% retain their penis. Transmen more likely to have disfiguring surgery to remove breasts and create a fake "penis" But that's not relevant in the context of a chat about women's loos, as transmen ARE women and perfectly entitled to be in them. And what is called a "true hermaphrodite" occurs in about 1 in 1000,000 live births, so extremely rare.
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4,048 posts
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Post by kathryn on May 7, 2024 13:25:15 GMT
‘Hermaphrodite’ is considered offensive by most (as well as being very inaccurate) because it is used to fetishize. ‘Intersex’ is used by LGBTQI+ activist groups and is the term in commonest usage, but rarely by people who actually have conditions affecting sexual development.
‘DSD’ (difference of sexual development) and ‘VSD’ (variation of sexual development) are the preferred umbrella terms by those who advocate for the rights of those with these conditions, but most would not describe themselves in that way as they would use the medical term for the actual condition they have. There is a huge range of different conditions with varying effects, so advocacy needs to be condition-specific.
I have yet to come across a group using the ‘intersex’ term that actually worked with people with medical conditions. I know the one in my workplace uses ‘I’ in the acronym but says they are not actually qualified to advocate for people with medical conditions, so it’s just included as a sort of vague gesture of solidarity.
People with DSDs don’t need special or separate bathrooms. .
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Post by scarletmood on May 7, 2024 15:50:05 GMT
Thanks for explaining that Kathryn I'm trying to be careful and constructive in this discussion and try to keep up to speed with all the different terms. Intersex I think is the safest one for me to use going forward for people who are born neither male of female.
I always say I fully understand LGBT but further than that I'm not so clear but always happy to learn or be informed. The "I" is now fully understood but I've seen the "Q" used to describe Queer and Queerying. The original meaning of Queer which was seen as derogatory for many years until it was reclaimed dates from the Oscar Wilde trial ironically.
I see Dannii Minogue has decided to come out as "queer" after 50 odd years.
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Post by tlppi on May 7, 2024 16:44:07 GMT
hehe, i chuckled at this. that should totally be a 'real' spelling
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4,048 posts
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Post by kathryn on May 7, 2024 20:24:31 GMT
Intersex I think is the safest one for me to use going forward for people who are born neither male of female. This is exactly why the term DSD/VSD is preferred over ‘intersex’ - it’s a misleading term. No-one is ‘born neither male or female’. People with DSDs are males/females whose reproductive system developed abnormally because of various reasons. The vast majority of DSDs are sex-specific - in that they only apply to one sex, or in that their symptoms differ in each sex. Symptoms of some DSDs are very serious indeed - they can be life-threatening - so accurate diagnoses are really important!
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